Breaking News: FAA to require pilots know how to fly

[Mud Eagle]

full stall in a swept wing airplane, isn't that test pilot stuff?

Hmmm...somehow Uncle Sam's flying school teaches kids to do this daily. What's so tough about it?

 

[Mud Eagle]

yea lets make a SAT of 1300 the min for an ATP, or ACT 29, two years of college math through Calc II, one year of calc based physics, and chem. Kinda like the military academy entrance requirements, that would put smarter piltos into the cockpit, if we could find them

The military still has a very, very long line at the entrance door for their pilot training of people who fit the bill....

 

[Mud Eagle]

When the airline creates a culture in which pilots have to do this to feed themselves--and know very well this is happening (they prohibited sleeping in the crew room)--then the airline bears some responsiblity for this accident.

Was Colgan still using indentured servants as aircrew then, or had they converted to a system where the crews were made up of employees who had the choice of if they wanted to work in a crappy environment or the option to leave and do something else?

 

[EWR_FO]

Higher pay don't fix stupid, ie. pulling into a stick shaker.

Or putting the flaps up in a stall/spin.

 

[BoilerUP]

Or putting the flaps up in a stall/spin.

Indeed.

I can't help but think the FO did that because she believed they were in a tail stall.

But they'd never have been in a position where that exacerbated things if 1. one or both of them had been minding the store with regards to airspeed control, or 2. the captain didn't pull a shaking yoke into his chest.

 

[Dornier 335]

yea lets make a SAT of 1300 the min for an ATP, or ACT 29, two years of college math through Calc II, one year of calc based physics, and chem. Kinda like the military academy entrance requirements, that would put smarter piltos into the cockpit, if we could find them

Most EU legacy carriers require a similar background in education as a hiring minimum; however, this does not fix the gap in common sense. You might have a pilot who can calculate the curvature of the earth @ FL400 but is weak in hand-flying and decision making. College doesn't guarantee to make a person a better pilot. Not matter what the label is.

 

[densoo]

I can't help but think the FO did that because she believed they were in a tail stall.

Or a go-around. If you look at the timing of when the plane finally flipped, it was precisely at this moment of the FO raising the flaps. A go-around is one maneuver that they were well trained in and when they went to full power muscle memory may have taken over and she thought we're in a go-around, need to raise the flaps.

In spite of the CA's erroneous inputs, it seems that they may have been powering out of it and could well have recovered, had it not been for this uncommanded action of raising the flaps.

 

[EWR_FO]

Indeed.

I can't help but think the FO did that because she believed they were in a tail stall.

But they'd never have been in a position where that exacerbated things if 1. one or both of them had been minding the store with regards to airspeed control, or 2. the captain didn't pull a shaking yoke into his chest.

I disagree, I think she thought it was a normal go-around. Oops, typed before reading- Densoo beat me to it.

 

[Abernathy]

Or a go-around. If you look at the timing of when the plane finally flipped, it was precisely at this moment of the FO raising the flaps. A go-around is one maneuver that they were well trained in and when they went to full power muscle memory may have taken over and she thought we're in a go-around, need to raise the flaps.

In spite of the CA's erroneous inputs, it seems that they may have been powering out of it and could well have recovered, had it not been for this uncommanded action of raising the flaps.

If you watch the reconstruction this certainly seems to be the case. Sad.

 

[Flopgut]

A proper relationship with the RLA would have prevented this accident...

Granting pilots access to the benefits side of the RLA (RRB) will be cheaper than this proposal.