Breaking News: FAA to require pilots know how to fly

[Mud Eagle]

full stall in a swept wing airplane, isn't that test pilot stuff?

Hmmm...somehow Uncle Sam's flying school teaches kids to do this daily. What's so tough about it?

 

[Mud Eagle]

yea lets make a SAT of 1300 the min for an ATP, or ACT 29, two years of college math through Calc II, one year of calc based physics, and chem. Kinda like the military academy entrance requirements, that would put smarter piltos into the cockpit, if we could find them

The military still has a very, very long line at the entrance door for their pilot training of people who fit the bill....

 

[Mud Eagle]

When the airline creates a culture in which pilots have to do this to feed themselves--and know very well this is happening (they prohibited sleeping in the crew room)--then the airline bears some responsiblity for this accident.

Was Colgan still using indentured servants as aircrew then, or had they converted to a system where the crews were made up of employees who had the choice of if they wanted to work in a crappy environment or the option to leave and do something else?

 

[EWR_FO]

Higher pay don't fix stupid, ie. pulling into a stick shaker.

Or putting the flaps up in a stall/spin.

 

[BoilerUP]

Or putting the flaps up in a stall/spin.

Indeed.

I can't help but think the FO did that because she believed they were in a tail stall.

But they'd never have been in a position where that exacerbated things if 1. one or both of them had been minding the store with regards to airspeed control, or 2. the captain didn't pull a shaking yoke into his chest.

 

[Dornier 335]

yea lets make a SAT of 1300 the min for an ATP, or ACT 29, two years of college math through Calc II, one year of calc based physics, and chem. Kinda like the military academy entrance requirements, that would put smarter piltos into the cockpit, if we could find them

Most EU legacy carriers require a similar background in education as a hiring minimum; however, this does not fix the gap in common sense. You might have a pilot who can calculate the curvature of the earth @ FL400 but is weak in hand-flying and decision making. College doesn't guarantee to make a person a better pilot. Not matter what the label is.

 

[densoo]

I can't help but think the FO did that because she believed they were in a tail stall.

Or a go-around. If you look at the timing of when the plane finally flipped, it was precisely at this moment of the FO raising the flaps. A go-around is one maneuver that they were well trained in and when they went to full power muscle memory may have taken over and she thought we're in a go-around, need to raise the flaps.

In spite of the CA's erroneous inputs, it seems that they may have been powering out of it and could well have recovered, had it not been for this uncommanded action of raising the flaps.

 

[EWR_FO]

Indeed.

I can't help but think the FO did that because she believed they were in a tail stall.

But they'd never have been in a position where that exacerbated things if 1. one or both of them had been minding the store with regards to airspeed control, or 2. the captain didn't pull a shaking yoke into his chest.

I disagree, I think she thought it was a normal go-around. Oops, typed before reading- Densoo beat me to it.

 

[Abernathy]

Or a go-around. If you look at the timing of when the plane finally flipped, it was precisely at this moment of the FO raising the flaps. A go-around is one maneuver that they were well trained in and when they went to full power muscle memory may have taken over and she thought we're in a go-around, need to raise the flaps.

In spite of the CA's erroneous inputs, it seems that they may have been powering out of it and could well have recovered, had it not been for this uncommanded action of raising the flaps.

If you watch the reconstruction this certainly seems to be the case. Sad.

 

[Flopgut]

A proper relationship with the RLA would have prevented this accident...

Granting pilots access to the benefits side of the RLA (RRB) will be cheaper than this proposal.

 

[waveflyer]

yea lets make a SAT of 1300 the min for an ATP, or ACT 29, two years of college math through Calc II, one year of calc based physics, and chem. Kinda like the military academy entrance requirements, that would put smarter piltos into the cockpit, if we could find them

So you see no distinction between a 1300 SAT and CalcII and the 3 question multiple choice and T/F rote memory joke we have now?

Standardize the knowledge requirements w/ the military and JAA- I'm not afraid of that- are you?

 

[LearLove]

on the more education thing - I knew a guy who had an engineering degree from a military academy (A average grades), flew military fighters, flew for 2 major airlines 20K+ hours and was killed in a stall accident while landing.

So what I'm saying:

No education or Phd, Military or Civ (or combo), 0 hours or 30K+, never paid a dime for training or PFT'd and every conceivable combination in between - we pilots of all levels/backgrounds can screw the pooch on any given day.

 

[pilotyip]

So you see no distinction between a 1300 SAT and CalcII and the 3 question multiple choice and T/F rote memory joke we have now?

Standardize the knowledge requirements w/ the military and JAA- I'm not afraid of that- are you?

Only my experience, we give a basic intelligence test, like a ASVAB, math, mech comp etc. Pilots who score high on this test have a much higer probability of being good pilots than pilots who score low on this test. Ex Mil pilots always score about 1.5 std devs above the mean for this test, because they have already been screened. Are their exceptions to this rule? Of course there are, but you go with what works. Like a company with growing profits in normally a good investment, and a company with declining profits is normally a poor investment.

 

[bizicmo]

on the more education thing - I knew a guy who had an engineering degree from a military academy (A average grades), flew military fighters, flew for 2 major airlines 20K+ hours and was killed in a stall accident while landing.

So what I'm saying:

No education or Phd, Military or Civ (or combo), 0 hours or 30K+, never paid a dime for training or PFT'd and every conceivable combination in between - we pilots of all levels/backgrounds can screw the pooch on any given day.

So your saying that there should be no requirements at all, even a pilot certificate itself should only be optional. Since anybody could have an accident on any given day, really there shouldn't be any type of attempt to minimize those accidents.
Airline A has pilots with engineering degrees, flew military fighters, and have about 20k hours. Airline B has pilots with degrees from Burger King U., and some C172 time about 500 hours. Which airline are you going to fly on since both could screw the pooch on any given day?

 

[LearLove]

So your saying that there should be no requirements at all, even a pilot certificate itself should only be optional. Since anybody could have an accident on any given day, really there shouldn't be any type of attempt to minimize those accidents.
Airline A has pilots with engineering degrees, flew military fighters, and have about 20k hours. Airline B has pilots with degrees from Burger King U., and some C172 time about 500 hours. Which airline are you going to fly on since both could screw the pooch on any given day?

Yeah that's exactly what I'm saying. O how did you ever crack my secret hidden meaning in that post?

Now go back to splitting atoms in your basement Einstein.

 

[waveflyer]

Nice-

I think we have a lot of LAZY pilots who don't want to study- but want to get PAID.
Good luck with that. Race to the bottom, meet your creator.

 

[bizicmo]

Yeah that's exactly what I'm saying. O how did you ever crack my secret hidden meaning in that post?

Now go back to splitting atoms in your basement Einstein.

We someone has to do it since your to busy watching american idol or refilling the ketchup packets. How dare us strive for excellence and improving mankind.

 

[Bringupthebird]

Hmmm...somehow Uncle Sam's flying school teaches kids to do this daily. What's so tough about it?

Uncle Sam turns out more UAV remote control pilots than conventional ones and no UAV currently have swept wings.

Airplanes will be dumbed down (Airbus) long before pilot requirements are raised, it just makes more economic sense. The current re-hash of the Fundementals of Aerodynamics is just laywer mandated window dressing.

 

[LearLove]

We someone has to do it since your to busy watching american idol or refilling the ketchup packets. How dare us strive for excellence and improving mankind.

Yeah I was watching TV shows like American Idol when I got my degree in Mechanical Engineering - whatever. I wasn't packing ketchup bottles while I was getting my degree either. I worked as an engineer designing electric motors and heat sinks for military aircraft and building flight exp. as a flight instructor.

I wrote papers titled "Theory of Low Reynolds Number High Lift Coefficient Airfoils" and completed studies on flight testing UAV's.

Now you studied what and did what while you were in school?

 

[Tweaker]

Uncle Sam turns out more UAV remote control pilots than conventional ones and no UAV currently have swept wings.

Airplanes will be dumbed down (Airbus) long before pilot requirements are raised, it just makes more economic sense. The current re-hash of the Fundementals of Aerodynamics is just laywer mandated window dressing.

Sadly, I agree.