Bombardier to sell 120 planes to NETJETS???

[T Heavy]

Here's how it went down:

Sokol: We really prefer Gulfstreams sorry.
Pierre: Ok, how about this: we sell you 120 of these things and we'll throw in Flexjet for free??

Sokol: Well that's a good offer but what do we do with Fred? We don't want him and his great international and long haul experience. Or at least that is what you told everyone at Flex why he was hired. To expand your international operations and long haul market.


Don't get me wrong, these Globals were never Flexjet's. Flex was not entitled to them however it was believed at the time that they were headed in that direction. But what Flex's management did was ask all of the CURRENT OWNERS if they wanted globals. The response given "was not favorable."

Are you kidding me... One of the dumbest statements I have ever read.

If you are selling hybrids. Do you ask a Hybrid owner if they are in the market for a Peterbilt? Owner: Ummm...No if I wanted a Peterbilt I would have bought one from someone who sells them? .......Thanks for asking though.

It is easy to be a Manager. Takes effort to be a leader.
It is easy to be a Pilot. Takes effort to be an aviator.

Hallelujah. Holy s*&$. Where is the Tylenol?

 

[NJAowner]

From what I read Gulfstream (if they keep things up) will always have customers.

NJA, while having legions of very loyal owners under RTS, will shrink. New management has said a smaller company is what they want. They will get it. Owners have been leaving and will continue to leave -- and these are not the 2005-2007 "boom" owners -- these are the 1995-2002 long tern owners. 24 months from now see how many "long term" NJA owners have left.

Many NJA owners don't need the capabilities of owning a Gulfstream but like to say they own one. Much like the Acura - Mercedes analogy a few posts ago. My guess is that this will have a marketing effect for NJA.

An old mentor of mine more than once told me "be careful what you wish for .. it may come true". A more efficient NJ may be a much smaller NJ with a much less loyal owner base. To me that does not sound good for pilots.

To be consistent, NJ is now squeezing all supplier and FBOs, manufacturers, staff, pilots, and everyone else it can. Do not think for a moment that NJ is not pushing its owners to the brink as well. In the old days, many like myself would not have even entertained the though of looking elsewhere (yes -- we drank the old Koolaid which tasted quite good -- it was made with real fruit and pure sugar in good concentrations). New management feeds us artificially colored, artificially flavored, extremely diluted cool aid and thinks we do not know the difference. After all - the only reason we have Dasani water on the flights is that it was the overwhelming preference of owners surveyed (and not because it was a Coca-Coal product). No owner (other than those in the BRK world) believes that or received that survey.

None of you really know me but I have no dog in this fight. I will always have what I believe is the best aviation solution for me, my family and my colleagues. My reasons for posting here are so that some of you hear facts and opinions to help complete the "entire story" and can best position yourself for your future. I have learned many important facts about flying on this board (I know facts and flightinfo don't always go together, but they do some times) and, in return, just want to give you the opinion from the other side to help complete the picture.

Life, and companies, area a balance. The most efficiently run company with no sales staff has no one to be efficient for -- and the best sales staff with a horribly run operation, can't stay afloat for long. Balance is what is needed and, in many owners' opinions, the pendulum has swung way too far in the opposite direction. Bring it back before it is too late. All marketing courses from a $9.95 web special to Harvard Business School will tell you it is much easier to keep an existing client/customer than to get a new one. As the price increases, so does the difficulty.

 

[rigger]

From what I read Gulfstream (if they keep things up) will always have customers.

NJA, while having legions of very loyal owners under RTS, will shrink. New management has said a smaller company is what they want. They will get it. Owners have been leaving and will continue to leave -- and these are not the 2005-2007 "boom" owners -- these are the 1995-2002 long tern owners. 24 months from now see how many "long term" NJA owners have left.

Many NJA owners don't need the capabilities of owning a Gulfstream but like to say they own one. Much like the Acura - Mercedes analogy a few posts ago. My guess is that this will have a marketing effect for NJA.

An old mentor of mine more than once told me "be careful what you wish for .. it may come true". A more efficient NJ may be a much smaller NJ with a much less loyal owner base. To me that does not sound good for pilots.

To be consistent, NJ is now squeezing all supplier and FBOs, manufacturers, staff, pilots, and everyone else it can. Do not think for a moment that NJ is not pushing its owners to the brink as well. In the old days, many like myself would not have even entertained the though of looking elsewhere (yes -- we drank the old Koolaid which tasted quite good -- it was made with real fruit and pure sugar in good concentrations). New management feeds us artificially colored, artificially flavored, extremely diluted cool aid and thinks we do not know the difference. After all - the only reason we have Dasani water on the flights is that it was the overwhelming preference of owners surveyed (and not because it was a Coca-Coal product). No owner (other than those in the BRK world) believes that or received that survey.

None of you really know me but I have no dog in this fight. I will always have what I believe is the best aviation solution for me, my family and my colleagues. My reasons for posting here are so that some of you hear facts and opinions to help complete the "entire story" and can best position yourself for your future. I have learned many important facts about flying on this board (I know facts and flightinfo don't always go together, but they do some times) and, in return, just want to give you the opinion from the other side to help complete the picture.

Life, and companies, area a balance. The most efficiently run company with no sales staff has no one to be efficient for -- and the best sales staff with a horribly run operation, can't stay afloat for long. Balance is what is needed and, in many owners' opinions, the pendulum has swung way too far in the opposite direction. Bring it back before it is too late. All marketing courses from a $9.95 web special to Harvard Business School will tell you it is much easier to keep an existing client/customer than to get a new one. As the price increases, so does the difficulty.

I think you should change your name to CitationAir owner.......

 

[johnsonrod]

NJAowner brings up some great points. Were existing Netjets owners asked about which aircraft types they would like in the future? I assume the Gulfstream owners would likely want to stay in Gulfstreams. Perhaps some focus groups were put together showing the different choices (comparisons) - I think that would make sense. Of course, you can't expect all owners to be familiar with the various aircraft options - although some owners are probably very sophisticated and knowledgeable about aircraft types, many probably couldn't point out a Global or a Legacy in a lineup.

In my mind, the challenge is that Gulfstream evidently has a large order backlog for the G550/650 while Bombardier was ready to do a deal with fewer orders and better pricing. Business is business, and after the recent poor performance at Netjets, pricing probably takes priority. So, it's a tradeoff. I could be wrong, but given Bombardier's reputation for poor maintenance, I would expect Sokol to negotiate special maintenance support as part of the package.

 

[Sparse]

Have you ever been in a CJ3 ?

Obviously not. The 400 blows the CJ3 away in all respects. CJ3 is "rinky dink".

Can the 400 takeoff from ASE and go non-stop tp TEB with an average load? Can it make SMO to ORF with a good wind?

 

[exagony]

Can the 400 takeoff from ASE and go non-stop tp TEB with an average load? Can it make SMO to ORF with a good wind?

Better question - can it make TEB - JFK nonstop? jk...

 

[brokeflyer]

Chime in b19's "I told you everything I said would happen" thread.

The industry leading contract is really sinking that place.

 

[DUATS]

Not a good day to be a flexjet pilot however...

Even worse day to be a furloughed Flexjet pilot. Any illusions I had of getting a chance to come back just left the building. I think NJ will evenutally buy FJ, and the key question will be "What 85 pilots?"

 

[ArtVandalay]

A good company that is truly loyal to its employees; the conversation really would have went down like this:

Pierre: Could we have ignored the order?
Sokol: Ignore the order??
Pierre: Or just forget it?
Sokol: NO.
Pierre: Can I think, "The old man is wrong"?
Pierre: Any chance our men could ignore the order?
Sokol: Ever been in a plane, son?
Pierre: Yes.
Sokol: Ever served drinks in an airplane?
Pierre: No.
Sokol: Ever put your butt on the line for your employees, and theirs in yours?
Pierre: No.
Sokol: We order airplanes, son. Otherwise, people lose their jobs. It's that simple. Are we clear?
Pierre: Crystal.
Pierre: One more question. If you order these Globals, and your orders are always followed, then why do we need Flexjet??

 

[HiSpeedFlyer]

Better question - can it make TEB - JFK nonstop? jk...

Only with a fuel stop in LGA, CB.