Bombardier to sell 120 planes to NETJETS???

[Tenspot]

I'm wondering where this merger or acquisition talk is coming from? I'm not seeing it. I am seeing the acquisition of aircraft and customers. Nothing more.

 

[Grizz]

Regardless of what happens with any possible consolidation in this segment of the industry, Art has the correct idea. Flex pilots need to get behind this card drive and vote in a union.

 

[dbman]

Quick temperature vote - how many on the line have had owners talk to them about this deal, either Netjets or Flexjet?

I was alerted to it by an owner before our own company even notified us. Completely unsolicited, I have had a handful of owners tell me in their professional opinion (some of them CEOs themselves) this does not bode well for the FJ, says a lot about the managment at both places (positive for NJA, negative for FJ) and those concerns will be seriously factored in come renewal time. They don't want the headache of owning a share in a company on the downtrend. Some have also commented it looks textbook business to them that Bombardier is positioning itself to dump Flex.

I also have had owners tell me they were NEVER approached regarding the purchase of a Global share with a very astute one pointing out that asking the owner of a midsize about it would be nonsense, the market research they should have been doing would have only existed outside of their current owner base, and if there was a market for other carriers there should be one for Flex.

Pilots aren't the only ones worried. Owners are too. Once again, these reactions have been completely unsolicited and in some cases mark the first time some particular owners have even said boo to the crew.

Unless THE PLAN was to put Flexjet out of business - and it's eerily starting to look that way - somebody done effed up at the top.

I agree with Art, the only way to save your job/career/position at Flex is to send in vote card NOW so we can get this show on the road, before management has an opportunity to position us out of the game. And trust me that is definitely what they are currently working furiously to do right behind those calm faces saying "everything's fine - don't mind the man behind the curtain..." DO NOT PUT YOUR TRUST IN THE MEN WHO ARE TRYING TO BARGAIN OUT YOUR JOB SECURITY. That's the definition of absurdity. Anyone who does not see that NOW is too stupid to deserve to keep that job. Yeah, I said it...

http://ibt1108.org/Docs/Teamsters%20Local%201108%20Authorization%20Card.pdf

 

[gutshotdraw]

Regardless of what happens with any possible consolidation in this segment of the industry, Art has the correct idea. Flex pilots need to get behind this card drive and vote in a union.

At the risk of agreeing with Grizz, that would be prudent since I don't believe McCaskill-Bond applies when one or both of the shops are non-union. The NJA/I integration was different since both divisions were part of the same company.

No matter what, I hope the Flex guys are treated fairly if a merger or buyout occurs (which I'm not convinced will happen).

 

[OPECJet]

At the risk of agreeing with Grizz, that would be prudent since I don't believe McCaskill-Bond applies when one or both of the shops are non-union. The NJA/I integration was different since both divisions were part of the same company.

No matter what, I hope the Flex guys are treated fairly if a merger or buyout occurs (which I'm not convinced will happen).

Makes no difference union / non-union.

Not only do you guys need a union on the property yesterday, you need a contract with some serious scope in it now. Even if it means extra time on the street, I don't want to come back to NJA and fly one of your airplanes.

 

[ultrarunner]

I agree with Art, the only way to save your job/career/position at Flex is to send in vote card NOW

News flash for ya....


A Union will NOT save your job. Been there-Done that!

 

[Seahawk]

No Union....

 

[gunfyter]

No Union....

Says the Baghdad Information Minister affectinately known as Baghdad Bob...

 

[Sky Captain]

Regardless of what happens with any possible consolidation in this segment of the industry, Art has the correct idea. Flex pilots need to get behind this card drive and vote in a union.

Like some of the former NJI guys who are complaining about not having been able to have a say-so in the intergration process WISHED they had done when they had the chance?

 

[Grizz]

Like some of the former NJI guys who are complaining about not having been able to have a say-so in the intergration process WISHED they had done when they had the chance?

I tried to tell them back in 2006...


http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?p=1021829#post1021829

Even though it didn't go to the NMB, it still would have been in their best interest to have had a union and a representative at the integration LOA bargaining.

I'll say it again - merger/acquisition or no, Flex pilots are going to be better off completing the card drive and organizing under 1108.

 

[G200_PILOT]

I tried to tell them back in 2006...


http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?p=1021829#post1021829

Even though it didn't go to the NMB, it still would have been in their best interest to have had a union and a representative at the integration LOA bargaining.

I'll say it again - merger/acquisition or no, Flex pilots are going to be better off completing the card drive and organizing under 1108.

WOW! Talk about a trip down memory lane. It's wild just to see Olsen's posts.

I agree with most of the guys here though, a card drive sounds great and all but I think you guys are a day late and a dollar short. IF this really were to play out like we're all thinking it will, there's no way you guys could get a contract done in time. There would be NO incentive for the company to come to the table and rush a contract through.

I hate to say it but this is exactly why you all should have done this years ago when you had the chance and the economy was good. You all could have secured a nice CBA and you all wouldn't be freaking out the way you are now. We all made our own decisions on where we wanted to work and whether or not we wanted to be represented by a union.

A lot of you bashed the union for years now saying that it caused nothing but problems yet here we are today and everyone is running around looking for those cards like a bunch of cockroaches scattering when the lights are turned on.

Surprise!

 

[Tenspot]

I guess you must be tired of irritating all your coworkers. You must be striving for greater things - irritating pilots everywhere.

 

[G200_PILOT]

Can't handle reality huh? Tell me what part of what I said is false.

Look man, I hold a bit of resentment towards all of this simply because of all of the union bashing that's gone on here and now all of a sudden the tide has turned. Add to that the mere thought of new names on our seniority list junior to the most senior furloughed guy is a bit disheartening too.

 

[ArtVandalay]

Well, he is an expert in hind-sight. G200 don't tell us what we "should" have done. We live in the present and plan for the future. We can't help it there was a lot of dead weight holding us back years ago. Don't preach to us about OUR situation. We are trying to do something here and we don't need you blowing spit wads at us with something that is completely out of our control and not even in the spectra of your intelligence. Be happy we are trying to better ourselves and protect ourselves NOW.

 

[G200_PILOT]

Protect yourself potentially at our furloughed pilot's expenses. I'm allowed to be pissed thanks.

 

[Grizz]

I agree with most of the guys here though, a card drive sounds great and all but I think you guys are a day late and a dollar short. IF this really were to play out like we're all thinking it will, there's no way you guys could get a contract done in time. There would be NO incentive for the company to come to the table and rush a contract through.

McCaskill-Bond isn't dependent on having a contact. You really ought to spend a little more time reading and learning versus just posting to get attention.

 

[G200_PILOT]

Ha! Griz to the rescue! Kinda like the whole 135 certificate thing right? Funny funny man.

You don't even know if that will even apply but you'll use it to sound important and the knower of all. You may want to learn a little yourself before you start talking like some sort of expert. But hey, if you did that, you'd be in a different place today.

 

[Tenspot]

.........

 

[Grizz]

Unfortunately there isn't a wealth of case law about McCaskill-Bond since it was only enacted in 2008. It is very clear that it definitely requires two covered employee groups being merged into a single carrier. As I said at the beginning of this whole discussion, I don't believe that is going to happen. That being said, I'd rather see Flex pilots become unionized regardless of this situation.

 

[G200_PILOT]

Ok, so let ms get this 100% clear. I come out and make a comment about it being too late IF a buy-out, merger, acquisition, or whatever you want to call it, is right around the corner and you come out swinging telling me I have no clue and that I should read more before saying something. Then you come back and admit that you yourself have no clue if any of that has anything to do with this situation. You always have to come riding in on the white horse and then back pedal at some point. Instead of bashing me, why can't you just accept the fact that you're no different? What I said. Few posts ago wasn't wrong Griz. Waiting till the ******************** hits the fan to react and try to unionize isn't the right way to do things.

I do question why you of all people are such a strong advocate for flex pilots to unionize knowing that it COULD negatively affect our furloughed brothers and sisters. I may be missing something but you seem to be playing for both teams to make yourself look like a hero once again. Pick a side Griz.