Bombardier to sell 120 planes to NETJETS???

[ArtVandalay]

DUATS, Artvandalay, you guys mind connecting the dots for me...I'm not arguing here just wondering what makes you guys believe this order is a huge blow for flexjet?

Why is this NJA bombardier order so "bad"?? comments like " flexjets guys work on our resumes", "Flexjet has managment but no leaders" "no chance for flexjet recalls", etc.. i find it hard to believe that an external affair can have so much impact on internal matters at flexjet... Would you guys be singing the same song had Sokol ordered more Gulfstreams or Falcons???

As far as NJA buying Flexjet- I'm about to start my 7th year at Netjets. I have not heard anything about "Netjets buying Flexjet". With 495 pilots on furlough I doubt Sokol wants to stir that pot by adding a few hundred more, and 3 more fleet types.

It's a blow because we are, were, the only fractional that flew our own products. I exclude xo jet because they are not really a frac but more of a charter broker. It's also a big blow because this could just be the tip of the iceberg. When your parent company ignores its own employees and goes for gold instead of integrity, it blows. Flexjet clearly does not have the sales team in place to sell large cabin aircraft, and Bombardier validated that buy selling to NJ. Flexjet is all about the status quo, if it aint broke don't fix it mentality. Flexjet seems to treat profit like a prescription; if you make profit then, repeat as necessary. In other words, they don't want to innovate or make changes that might affect the profit. They are the most conservative company I've ever worked for. There is no desire to be aggressive when you're making profits, that is the way they view it. Maybe there is nothing wrong with that but, from a business perspective, you can't survive if you don't grow, that is a fact.

 

[av8trinabarrel]

It's a blow because we are, were, the only fractional that flew our own products. I exclude xo jet because they are not really a frac but more of a charter broker. It's also a big blow because this could just be the tip of the iceberg. When your parent company ignores its own employees and goes for gold instead of integrity, it blows. Flexjet clearly does not have the sales team in place to sell large cabin aircraft, and Bombardier validated that buy selling to NJ. Flexjet is all about the status quo, if it aint broke don't fix it mentality. Flexjet seems to treat profit like a prescription; if you make profit then, repeat as necessary. In other words, they don't want to innovate or make changes that might affect the profit. They are the most conservative company I've ever worked for. There is no desire to be aggressive when you're making profits, that is the way they view it. Maybe there is nothing wrong with that but, from a business perspective, you can't survive if you don't grow, that is a fact.

Tell the no growth no survival thing to Sokol. NJ wont be growing for a LONG LONG time. I feel your no growth, no direction, no leadership pain all too well.

When I came to NJ three years ago, it seemed that every airline was heading down this exact path. No way in hell I wanted a major airline gig. My fellow furloughed brothers and sisters have been forced to turn to these type of op's to feed the family. I hold out little hope for me returning to NJ and I pray for you and everyone else being kicked in the groin by management. If it makes you feel better, I just installed a 75 gallon water heater and augered out a toilet that had 3 month old floaters in it. My take was $750.00. Somebody that is gonna let a turd sit in a toilet for 3 months is gonna take it in the rear worse than Sokol and your guy can dish out!:nuts:

 

[ArtVandalay]

I guess it really just boils down to a simple choice. Do you dig in or chase something else?? Problem is, with fractionals, there isn't enough history to know what the future will bring. With the airlines, its all cyclical and always will be so, if you get in at the beginning of a good cycle, you're set. With the fracs, its a crap shoot right now, do you stay and protect your seniority and longevity or do you bail for "greener pastures"?

To quote: "Get busy living, or get busy dying".

 

[FastJP4]

I guess it really just boils down to a simple choice. Do you dig in or chase something else?? Problem is, with fractionals, there isn't enough history to know what the future will bring. With the airlines, its all cyclical and always will be so, if you get in at the beginning of a good cycle, you're set. With the fracs, its a crap shoot right now, do you stay and protect your seniority and longevity or do you bail for "greener pastures"?

To quote: "Get busy living, or get busy dying".

Tough call, but I can say this. When I was furloughed from Flex I was pretty bummed out. As it sits now, I'm very thankful I was furloughed. I now work overseas and was just typed on the family's new aircraft - a 2011 Falcon 2000LX. Not a huge fan of the 30/30 schedule, but I can't complain with working half a year. Pay is better than a 15 yr Challenger pilot, and the respect given to us exceeds anything I've ever experienced working in the US.

It's always a tough choice to decide whether to dig in or seek other opportunities, but I can honestly say being furloughed from Flex was the best thing that's happened to me in my flying career. Flex and its pilots have a very bleak future with FG at the helm.

 

[X-rated]

But the public who will buy these shares in a heavy jet want Gulfstream. .

Yup, right up till the first time they actually actually sit in a Global. The XRS has a 28 percent larger cabin than a G550. (2140 cu ft vs 1669 cu ft) Likewise, the 7000 will have a 23.3% larger cabin than the G650. (2637 vs 2138 cu ft)

Just sayin'...

 

[jonjuan]

Yup, right up till the first time they actually actually sit in a Global. The XRS has a 28 percent larger cabin than a G550. (2140 cu ft vs 1669 cu ft) Likewise, the 7000 will have a 23.3% larger cabin than the G650. (2637 vs 2138 cu ft)

Just sayin'...

Yep-Ol' Warren flew in Bill Gates' Global last year and fell in love. Game over.

 

[DUATS]

It's a blow because we are, were, the only fractional that flew our own products. I exclude xo jet because they are not really a frac but more of a charter broker. It's also a big blow because this could just be the tip of the iceberg. When your parent company ignores its own employees and goes for gold instead of integrity, it blows. Flexjet clearly does not have the sales team in place to sell large cabin aircraft, and Bombardier validated that buy selling to NJ. Flexjet is all about the status quo, if it aint broke don't fix it mentality. Flexjet seems to treat profit like a prescription; if you make profit then, repeat as necessary. In other words, they don't want to innovate or make changes that might affect the profit. They are the most conservative company I've ever worked for. There is no desire to be aggressive when you're making profits, that is the way they view it. Maybe there is nothing wrong with that but, from a business perspective, you can't survive if you don't grow, that is a fact.

What he said....

Bottom line: the only thing that separated Flexjet from other fractionals was the exclusive relationship with Bombardier. Since that is now gone, I think the barn door is open and Flexjet will get sucked up by netJets or someone else. If Netjets, I am sure the Lear 60 would disappear - and the 604/605 might as well. The 40/45 and the 300 are the bulk of Flexjet's contracts - and the most valuable assets to another company.

 

[jtf]

But are they really valuable assets? Are those contracts making a profit? Most, if not all the real profits for the fractionals have been in sales while operations have mostly been money losers. It has taken all kinds of squeezing for NJA to supposedly make a profit on operations last year (not sure if it was really on ops or if it was really mostly in cost cutting). NetJets is more expensive for the customers and probably runs more expensive on its operations so buying another fractional (the contracts) would be an instant loss. With 70 percent of the the entire fractional market it really isn't necessary for NJA to buy anyone out there out at the current time. It makes more sense for NJA to wait out the competition and grab customers when the competition shrinks or dies. I guess I could understand an acquisition if one of the competitors started really picking up market share, but that isn't happening right now. Honestly, I don't see buying any of the fractionals as a wise business decision for any company.

 

[DUATS]

But are they really valuable assets? Are those contracts making a profit? Most, if not all the real profits for the fractionals have been in sales while operations have mostly been money losers. It has taken all kinds of squeezing for NJA to supposedly make a profit on operations last year (not sure if it was really on ops or if it was really mostly in cost cutting). NetJets is more expensive for the customers and probably runs more expensive on its operations so buying another fractional (the contracts) would be an instant loss. With 70 percent of the the entire fractional market it really isn't necessary for NJA to buy anyone out there out at the current time. It makes more sense for NJA to wait out the competition and grab customers when the competition shrinks or dies. I guess I could understand an acquisition if one of the competitors started really picking up market share, but that isn't happening right now. Honestly, I don't see buying any of the fractionals as a wise business decision for any company.

Problem for profitability is too many core aircraft - a polite name for the stuff the sales department has not found a buyer for. If you were to merge two fractional operators - at least one of which doesn't have a union contract - you could eliminate the excess core in a heartbeat.

Scenario: NetJets buys all the contracts Flexjet has, and the CL30's and 45's. They don't buy any 60's or 604/605's; those owners are moved into core airplanes already at NetJets. Excess Flexjet pilots are either furoughed prior to the deal or stapled to the bottom of the NetJets recall list, which I think extends to about 2019. Core fleet gone, new contracts in place, staffing managed, profitability increased.
I'm not a professional M&A guy - but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night.

 

[T-1GUY]

Just a question thinking out loud. Why would Netjets need to purchase Flexjet ? Could they not just have an agreement that says Netjets will buy aircraft form Bombardier, and in return, Flexjet will be shutdown, customers will become Netjet customers ? I wouldn't want a merger. Those things are big headaches. I just want a good deal on jets, and you in return, stop competing with me. Somewhere in the middle, the customers get a good deal and become NJ owners in shiny new airplanes...