Bombardier to sell 120 planes to NETJETS???

[Grizz]

I'll explain it to you. As far as I can find, there hasn't been a case taken to court yet to determine if a "covered employee" is required to be a member of a union to get that protection. (BW agreed that that is the central question that will need to be answered) Literally, that's the million dollar question.

Nowhere in the McCaskill-Bond amendment does it say anything about a contract being required. If you'd read it, you'd know that. It's pretty clear that isn't even a player in the discussion.

That's the difference in our posts. I'm discussing something that really hasn't been settled by case law yet and is open to interpretation. You are posting pure nonsense just because you need attention. I'm done giving it to you.

As to the union question - it's simple. I think our industry and our pilots would be better off if Flex were unionized. I'd like to see Citation Air and Avantair unionized. That basic position is true regardless of this mental masturbation we're involved in about a possible M/A with Flex.

 

[G200_PILOT]

It's not nonsense at all. What I've said is what most people think but they don't want to hurt anyone's feelings. What part of wha I said is nonsense Griz? Every fractional pilot here that works at Flex, CS, or Avantair has had YEARS to organize and secure contracts. There were plenty of pilots who wanted to but they always hit brick walls with their fellow pilots who didn't want anything to do with unions. We've all seen numerous pilots here expressing their thoughts as to why unions were such a bad idea. I wasn't till this latest article came out that pilots stopped for a minute and thought about their grim future. I compare this to a small country waiting until they get attacked to try and get an army together. The bottom line is that it's just too late IF an announcement is right around the corner. That's the part you seem to miss in every one of my posts. I said IF it's right around the corner.

The rest of you last post is nothing more than your next campaign platform. Its to be totally expected. Come in looking like a hero and a REAL pilots advocate and then showing your true colors.

 

[Tenspot]

I feel sorry for the Flexjet pilots if this actually happens. Having to put up with G200 over here is bad enough. Add in the union forum and it's cruel and unusual punishment. Ask any NetJet pilot to name the 5 biggest idiots we have and his name will make every list.

 

[G200_PILOT]

Now THAT'S funny right there. So in other words, you can't argue what I'm saying but you just don't like it so you're left with throwing personal attacks out. That's great fun. The majority of what people have a problem with when it comes to my posts are how straight forward they are. Bu we've all seen guys like you plenty of times. When you realize the argument isn't going your way, the only left to do is attack on a personal level. Trust me bud, that's not going to make me stop posting. You may not like what I'm saying here but the truth is sometimes a really hard pill to swallow. I'm not walking on eggshells for anyone here. If it comes down to out furloughees or another pilot group, you know which side I'll fight for. It's sad you don't feel the same.

 

[J3guy]

Hey G200, I think flex is not a union shop because we don't enjoy working with people like you. We are different. So keep on banging on your union drum and dreaming about how you all can staple us so as to bring back your union brothers and sisters. They are more important arent they, because they're union? right? Your "its all about me" attitude is repulsive. Have a nice day.

 

[G200_PILOT]

Yes they ARE more important and if you're going to put something in quotes, make it "It's all about US NJASAP guys... furloughed or active!"

 

[barnyard]

Yes they ARE more important and if you're going to put something in quotes, make it "It's all about US NJASAP guys... furloughed or active!"

+1

Thanks W.

 

[warlord19]

Unionized pilots, unionized teachers, unionized TSA, etc. It's pretty simple to observe how any union eventually evolves....turn on your TV and see your fine bro's and sistah's acting like the goons they have become in Wisconson. All I ask of my Flexjet bro's and sista's is to be careful what you ask for...your best protection in this world sits on your shoulders.
WL

 

[flex*wife]

G200 et al, I hear what you're saying and under different circumstances I might even be inclined to agree with some of your points.*****

But I think there is information you need to consider...

Organizing has always been a topic of interest for a fair portion of flex pilots and that group has, in the past, been vocal enough to the point that it has always given management the upper hand in organizing their own FUD campaign. *****

So, these interested pilots, nudged in part by ENOUGH ALREADY and honestly too by some of the positive legal and procedural changes in the card count process, *****have decided to begin to organize under stealth. *****They were taking every caution to keep this info out of the hands of management or "torpedo" factions within the pilot group.

These latest effort has been going on FOR MONTHS quietly under the radar until just a few weeks ago. *****The discussions with IBT didn't just start as a result of the latest press releases and quite honestly the 120 jet purchase is but ONE of the many issues, albeit a very concerning one. *****What those others issues are could take up many many posts. *****

The gist is whether or not the sky falls, whether or not an M&A is in the future is irrelevant to the unionization process at Flex - the interest was generated before and will continue despite whatever happens of this order, and IF that order even happens as there is plenty of history to say a press release isn't a signed check...

So I've been trying to stay out of it, I don't want to muddy the waters with my presence as I can sometimes cause people to stray from the point, but I thought you'd like to know some of the facts.

Y'all have no idea of how serious it is this time and this time, with the way abstention votes are handled versus the last time, we should have a fighting chance.

 

[flex*wife]

Oh, and legally speaking, I think the efforts of organization and the formation of a union / negotiating committee WILL provide protection, even without a CBA so there's a rebuttal to that point. *****I would think it would be disadvantageous *****to MANAGEMENT not pilots to drag out the negotiation process when we get to that point. *****INTENT not contract has been getting it's fair share in court for years... *****Not saying it's right, but it's just a fact...

 

[flex*wife]

Sorry about all the asterisks in my posts - I'm not putting them in there so if anyone can tell me how to get them to not show up please PM me! Thanks!

 

[G200_PILOT]

Wife, thanks for taking the time to post. Ever since 1999 when I got the call telling me that I was hired at NJA, I've felt very close to the company and even closer to the great group of pilots that I've worked with over the years. That passion has only gotten bigger over the years. It's nonsecret that our entire industry has come under attack since late 2008. While every frac has taken hits, it seems that as the industry leader, NJA has taken some of the bigest blows. In January 2010, I flew 5 days with a young man who, at the end of that tour, was on the street with a wife and a new baby to support. That drove some feelings home for me and I'll never for get that week. I want to see those guys and gals back here. They're all still part of what NJA is today and they all deserve a chance to fly a QS airplane again. From my seat, it's tough to think about ANYONE else besides the 495 joining the current pilot group. I understand we all have families and responsibilities but please understand that my loyalty is with my fellow NJA pilots. Whether they're currently here or waiting for a recall letter, they're still my brothers and sisters. I'm sure I could sugarcoat it and make it sound a little nicer but that would give folks the wrong idea of who I really am....

I know all about Flex's attempts to getting a union on property. I too know some folks over there and believe it or not, I'm this honest with them as well and they still love me.

I'm not wishing anyone here a bad future. I wish everyone the best but my heart and fighting side will stay in house defending my fellow pilots.

 

[captain007]

Wife, thanks for taking the time to post. Ever since 1999 when I got the call telling me that I was hired at NJA, I've felt very close to the company and even closer to the great group of pilots that I've worked with over the years. That passion has only gotten bigger over the years. It's nonsecret that our entire industry has come under attack since late 2008. While every frac has taken hits, it seems that as the industry leader, NJA has taken some of the bigest blows. In January 2010, I flew 5 days with a young man who, at the end of that tour, was on the street with a wife and a new baby to support. That drove some feelings home for me and I'll never for get that week. I want to see those guys and gals back here. They're all still part of what NJA is today and they all deserve a chance to fly a QS airplane again. From my seat, it's tough to think about ANYONE else besides the 495 joining the current pilot group. I understand we all have families and responsibilities but please understand that my loyalty is with my fellow NJA pilots. Whether they're currently here or waiting for a recall letter, they're still my brothers and sisters. I'm sure I could sugarcoat it and make it sound a little nicer but that would give folks the wrong idea of who I really am....

I know all about Flex's attempts to getting a union on property. I too know some folks over there and believe it or not, I'm this honest with them as well and they still love me.

I'm not wishing anyone here a bad future. I wish everyone the best but my heart and fighting side will stay in house defending my fellow pilots.

Thanks!

From a furloughed NJA Pilot & his family.

 

[flex*wife]

G200 I hear ya - and like I said I don't necessarily disagree. I just wanted to point out this latest union drive has been months in the works and WAS NOT precipitated or even pushed up by the NJ order.

It is by far the most organized, mature, sensible thought thru process Flex pilots have ever taken in regard to a drive and I for one, and hope you'll agree, am hopeful that it's
the differentness of this campaign that will make all the difference.

I think it's important to remember that when having this discussion, that's all.

I have the utmost of compassion and goodwill toward any furloughed family, including the 85 Flex families about to be forgotten here at the end of the month. If that's not a cause for all of us to agree on unionization at Flex I don't know what is. I know crap happens, including layoffs, but not having a union at Flex only excerbated the pain and recent numbers would suggest the company was overly heavy handed and a CBA with the same provisions both NJA & FLOPS could have significantly reduced the number we ourselves let go or downgraded.

I'll TRY to shut-up now

 

[Grizz]

Let's make an assumption. Let's assume that there actually is a plan for NetJets to acquire Flex. If that actually happens, I'm betting that Allegheny-Mohawk and McCaskill-Bond will apply regardless of whether or not Flex pilots are represented by Teamsters 1108.

The question then becomes - who would be the agent for Flex pilots? Without a successful union drive, it will be Flexjet management. With a successful drive, it will be line pilots from Flexjet. I'd rather have fellow pilots sitting down to work this out than a management lackey from Flexjet.

 

[jetmaster727]

Look NetJets has their own set of problems; they're not acquiring Flex at least anytime soon. Flex pilots need a union pr

 

[jetmaster727]

need a union primarily for two reasons; job security and stopping the BS that goes on in training. Raw data approach single engine, give me a break!

 

[DAS at 10/250]

NJA already has nearly 500 pilots on the street. Why would they possibly want more? Management is in radar power issuing new orders for new airplanes to replace aging aircraft. What interest would NJA have in a fleet of older aircraft? NJA is working to reduce fleets. Why would they buy a company and increase the number of fleets? I could see CMH having interest in the CL300 and Flex's client list but I can't see any interest in acquiring Flex.

Just my opinion from the cheap seats.

Sent from my ADR6300 using Tapatalk

 

[johnsonrod]

NJA already has nearly 500 pilots on the street. Why would they possibly want more? Management is in radar power issuing new orders for new airplanes to replace aging aircraft. What interest would NJA have in a fleet of older aircraft? NJA is working to reduce fleets. Why would they buy a company and increase the number of fleets? I could see CMH having interest in the CL300 and Flex's client list but I can't see any interest in acquiring Flex.

Just my opinion from the cheap seats.

Sent from my ADR6300 using Tapatalk

Easy way to knock out a competitor - acquire them...

 

[G200_PILOT]

Easy way to knock out a competitor - acquire them...

That's taught the third day of business school. I learned it from a guy who learned it his third day of business school.