Bloomberg says LCC and AMR

[Captain X]

Row vs. Wade?

What Would Sully Do?

Ditch the b!@ch.

 

[eaglesview]

Well, it makes sense on a couple of levels:

1. Gives LAACC the mass to compete with NWDAAL and UACALL.
2. Combines the AWA/APA pilot groups to put USAPA out to pasture.

If they were to merge I believe you are wrong. The AA pilots would definatly support a DOH position. Look at there longevity vs AWA. This number will increase if AA suffers a loos of flying and furloughs.

 

[TWA Dude]

The APA will try to do whatever is best for the AA pilots, regardless.

 

[grog_sit_reserv]

Veritas! TWA.

 

[eaglesview]

The APA will try to do whatever is best for the AA pilots, regardless.

You are absolutly correct. Just like USAPA did.

 

[Guppiedriver]

If they were to merge I believe you are wrong. The AA pilots would definatly support a DOH position. Look at there longevity vs AWA. This number will increase if AA suffers a loos of flying and furloughs.

How did that work out for the easties? I don't give a rats azz what the other side supports. If it is not a reasonable solution, it will not be considered.

 

[Flopgut]

The AA pilots would definatly support a DOH position.

Whoa there fella. Have you been actually paying attention to how the APA does business? The only thing they will "definitly" do is look out for their own pilots.

Doug is already too late. He got beat out at DAL and it looks like he's got his pants down now. AMR/APA will be the surviving airline/union and I doubt they are going to be at a sufficient enough contractual disadvantage that they would have to surrender anything to USAPA.

 

[Taco Rocket]

No merger.

I think the whole point of declaring with over 4 billion in cash was to avoid a merger "partner."

They are doing their bankruptcy Mesa style -- self financed. They aren't broke: they are just using the law to screw their suppliers and employees. Like Mesa, somebody will do business with them again, and lend them money -- probably GE Capital. And of course I can't wait for mgt to issue themselves a cut of the new preferred shares, just like Mesa... hell, J.O. should consult...

 

[Hpilot]

Won't be a windfall for anybody, Heaven forbid this merger should come to pass.

And for the record, I support binding arbitration and unlike some I can live with the result, come what may.

Agreed. Goes to arbitration and we ACCEPT the outcome even it it doesn't staple the American pilots below us.

 

[aa73]

APA didn't staple the TWA pilots. If that had been the case I wouldn't have been furloughed with 700 TWA pilots still flying AA metal.

It wasn't pretty for the TWA pilots but saying it was a staple is completely inaccurate.

Ummm... you may want to check your facts.

Approx. 1200 pilots got stapled and approx 900 got integrated at 1:8. You just happened to have been hired after the last TWA stapled pilot.

 

[LeeRoyJenkins]

Ummm... you may want to check your facts.

Approx. 1200 pilots got stapled and approx 900 got integrated at 1:8. You just happened to have been hired after the last TWA stapled pilot.

Check my facts? You are basically agreeing with me with only one glaring error. You ASSUME I was hired after the TWA acquisition when I was not. I was on AA property two months before the TWA acquisition was announced.

 

[Flopgut]

I knew what you were talking about Leroy. You got a bad deal too that the TWA guys either have forgot about or don't care.

 

[Metrojet]

Won't be a windfall for anybody, Heaven forbid this merger should come to pass.

And for the record, I support binding arbitration and unlike some I can live with the result, come what may.

TWA Dude -

Rather than agreeing or disagreeing with your post - I will just make an observation - if there is a merger with 3 pilot groups and 3 contracts - I will bet that in 5 years from now there will be over 2000 retirements - so all these people posting - many wont even be here for the long term

Metrojet

 

[TWA Dude]

You are absolutly correct. Just like USAPA did.

Actually, I'll have to agree with you here. In light of how the APA handled the TWA seniority integration one can only assume they'll have as little integrity as the USAir Easties. I still don't understand why you're an apologist for them.

 

[TWA Dude]

TWA Dude -

Rather than agreeing or disagreeing with your post - I will just make an observation - if there is a merger with 3 pilot groups and 3 contracts - I will bet that in 5 years from now there will be over 2000 retirements - so all these people posting - many wont even be here for the long term

George Nicolau was well aware of the forecast retirements at US Air yet he chose not to grant the East a windfall at the West's expense because of them. It's indicative of how SLI arbitrations are going now, focusing on the more certain short-term rather than the less certain long-term. So your bet is moot.

 

[On Your Six]

Who will "win" if there is a merger with AA and LCC? The AWA guys will likely push for arbitration, but with the Nicalau award which will stand eventually. Throw in very old pilot groups at USair East and AA, and if this merger goes, those AWA guys will rise to the top of the new AA very fast. AA has old captains and old FOs, just like USair East. That NIC award will eventually stand, and the Eastholes can go suck it.


Godspeed!


OYS

 

[On Your Six]

TWA Dude -

Rather than agreeing or disagreeing with your post - I will just make an observation - if there is a merger with 3 pilot groups and 3 contracts - I will bet that in 5 years from now there will be over 2000 retirements - so all these people posting - many wont even be here for the long term

Metrojet

If the merger happens, NIC will stand, USAPA will fall. Heck yeah!


Godspeed!


OYS

 

[eaglesview]

Whoa there fella. Have you been actually paying attention to how the APA does business? The only thing they will "definitly" do is look out for their own pilots.

You are correct. But you see a DOH merger puts a vast amount of East Coast folks on the street in a hurry due to 65 and the AA guys are much more senior, (longevity) than are the west. They will do what is best for them. Obviously DOH is better than the NIC for APA in this hypothetical scenario.

 

[eaglesview]

Actually, I'll have to agree with you here. In light of how the APA handled the TWA seniority integration one can only assume they'll have as little integrity as the USAir Easties. I still don't understand why you're an apologist for them.

I am not fan of theirs but I just look at typical pilot greed and do the math. Your scenerio is awful as you have not been treated fairly by a number of pilot groups starting with the APA.

 

[TWA Dude]

I am not fan of theirs ...

Your posts here indicate otherwise.

 

[eaglesview]

Your posts here indicate otherwise.

That's ok, think what you want. I wish you good luck if this should happen.

 

[aa73]

Check my facts? You are basically agreeing with me with only one glaring error. You ASSUME I was hired after the TWA acquisition when I was not. I was on AA property two months before the TWA acquisition was announced.

OK, my bad on the assumption.

That would place you as an Oct/Nov 2000 hire, correct? So there would still be a bunch of TWA pilots integrated at 1:8 ahead of you. Remember, they furloughed a bunch of TWA and AA folks at the same time. The stapled TWA pilots are all below you. However, you were in the group that got furloughed along with many of the 1:8 TWA pilots as well.

 

[shon7]

why would anyone in thier right mind want to touch LCC. Its a complete mess and a merger will only complicate matters. Better to just bid on the assets and see what happens.

 

[eaglesview]

why would anyone in thier right mind want to touch LCC. Its a complete mess and a merger will only complicate matters. Better to just bid on the assets and see what happens.

And in your opinion do what with the pilots???? This is where we are our own worst enemy. Pilot greed is sickening.

 

[Ky.BrownBourbn]

why would anyone in thier right mind want to touch LCC. Its a complete mess and a merger will only complicate matters. Better to just bid on the assets and see what happens.

What if LCC is doing the "touching", you have to look at the big picture, DP loves having two pilot groups to play off each other, imagine a third...like three companies competing for your business, let the "throat cutting" begin!

Good luck to us all,
KBB

 

[JumpersAway]

Attrition would be so agressive it wouldn't really matter. The numbers are the numbers- retirements far outpacing that of any other airline, in a short span. Depending on how much the combined airline cut capacity, both AWA and USAir of old would get what they wanted- the pay and QOL each seeks. It's a moot point- everybody would be arguing just to argue.

 

[shon7]

And in your opinion do what with the pilots???? This is where we are our own worst enemy. Pilot greed is sickening.

The pilots can do the same thing ATA pilots did when LUV bought it out.

 

[LeeRoyJenkins]

OK, my bad on the assumption.

That would place you as an Oct/Nov 2000 hire, correct? So there would still be a bunch of TWA pilots integrated at 1:8 ahead of you. Remember, they furloughed a bunch of TWA and AA folks at the same time. The stapled TWA pilots are all below you. However, you were in the group that got furloughed along with many of the 1:8 TWA pilots as well.

AGAIN, that is what I was saying. Another poster indicated that the APA stapled the TWA pilots. That is simply not true. If it had been a true staple then there wouldn't have been 700 TWA pilots still flying for AA when I was furloughed.

As I stated before it wasn't pretty for the TWA pilots but it was not a staple of the entire group which seems to be the assumption around here. I was merely pointing that out.

If I was not clear I apologize however I thought my statement was short and to the point.

 

[aa73]

LeeRoy... correct - they didn't staple the whole group.

54% stapled, 46% integrated at 1:8.
In actual #s, approx. 1200 stapled and 900 integrated.

Hope this clears it up.
Happy holidays...
73

 

[Turtle21]

Again, pensions frozen...not lost.

Best of luck with that.