Benefits of a Merger for a Delta Pilot

[ACL65PILOT]

I can promise you this FIN, the only amount of DAL guys that will hit the street is the amount that they have hired. Trust me they will not want to take out six seats in every 76 seat jet. All of the previous furloughs will be safe. It is the 670 or so DAL guys and the 176 NWA guys on the bottom that need to be worried. Fact is that neither union cares nor do they need to. Evey one else is laying off and if we need to we will too. No piece of paper is going to prevent it. Trust me. If they want you gone, you are gone. Now go get the 500 hrs you need in the 767 to apply for the Far East contracts.
I still have not heard the F word. I do now know where you are getting it. Unless the business plan has changed this week while I have been on the road. With 8 LR's coming, that equates to 256 pilots for those airplanes alone. That does not include the 10 737-700 that will staff at 11 pilots each for a total of 366 pilots. That is more than enough seats to absorb what we are parking this fall. Add to that the inefficiencies of taking people off line to train the pipe line to the left seat of the 777, There are going to be a lot of bodies sitting in the training dept, even if we do not hire.

I agree that the bottom 10% need to have resumes ready, because it will take no time at all to throw airplanes in the desert. It will be easier to cut from the DAL list because we are all over the place. It will not require a lot of retaining events for those displaced. At NWA the only way it would help hurt them is if the DC-9's are parked. According to the powers that be that ain't going to happen.
I will say this again. I have been told that the next two to three years will be difficult at times, but after that we are going to be taking names. These guys are bullish about what is ahead of us.
Look around the industry. Tons of people are getting pink slips, will we be different, maybe. For now we are. That does not mean that it can change tomorrow.
On final not before I quit rambling. RA is a very skilled negotiator. I know people that have dealt with him at UHC. Do you think that for one moment he would not throw the F word to the NWA side or the DAL side of this deal to get someone off their back sides. I would. If he did, he just won a bluff. He may still be using it. It may actually get the SLI done. Everyone in the union that is someone, states that furloughs are real possibility. I just do not think that we are as close as some like to think. I did and had a few good chats. It may be coming, but not as soon as some may think. Now if they tinker with the fall schedules again, look for 300 for the DAL list to get a early fall break. Fact is that it would cost to much money to just do it, unless we are in a long term period of negative growth. Today we are not.

 

[licorice]

This thread is lame.

Nobody "gets" anything.

Two strong airlines ("strong" in a relative sense) are combining. The sum of 1 + 1 will be greater than 2.

If that was not a fact BOTH MEC's would be fighting it tong-and-hook.

Without the impetus of a merger, there would be no LOA 19. Likewise, the NWA group would be looking at a Winter of tough sledding...and no improvements. Both airlines would be furloughing this year.

"Stand-alone" talk is the patter of chumps who need their egos salved. The future is the merger. Period. If you aren't focused on making it work, you're screwing yourself.

If your inner troll has control of your keyboard right now...rage on. The rest of us will shake our heads, and have second thoughts about Darwin being 100% right.

Occam: Easy for you to say....you are NWA are you not? NWA pilots are getting a better deal out of this merger..PERIOD It doesn't really bother me though, I am pro merger, and merely stating a fact of this matter. Junior DAL pilots should not be furloughed for the retirement of NWA dc-9's, in what conceivable scenario would that be fair?

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Fact is that as far as we need to be concerned it is a JPWA. Do not look at it as NWA got a bigger piece of cake than me. Look at it as a fact that you will have a job or be recalled to a job that some of your buddies will never have. Would you want to go to their wages instead of coming up to ours?
Perspective will be when you have a furloughed legacy CA in your right seat in 10 years. You may loose a few years of CA pay, but it is better than losing a career of FO and CA pay.
Remember all of the guys that are getting let go at UAL. It is projected to go back to early 1999. Many of these guys that took a chance and came back are once again getting another pink slip. Now for me that is perspective ,that today, I still have my job, and my future is a lot brighter than his is. This holds true even if I get furloughed. Long term people, quit looking at the end of your noses.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

DAL pilots should not be furloughed for the retirement of NWA dc-9's, in what conceivable scenario would that be fair?

Tell your MEC. They already know it. I am sure that it will be taken in to account. The is kind of like yelling at someone for busting a check ride before it has even began.

 

[Speedbird34]

This thread is lame.

Nobody "gets" anything.

Two strong airlines ("strong" in a relative sense) are combining. The sum of 1 + 1 will be greater than 2.

If that was not a fact BOTH MEC's would be fighting it tong-and-hook.

Without the impetus of a merger, there would be no LOA 19. Likewise, the NWA group would be looking at a Winter of tough sledding...and no improvements. Both airlines would be furloughing this year.

"Stand-alone" talk is the patter of chumps who need their egos salved. The future is the merger. Period. If you aren't focused on making it work, you're screwing yourself.

If your inner troll has control of your keyboard right now...rage on. The rest of us will shake our heads, and have second thoughts about Darwin being 100% right.

Occam is bais!! He wants his 40% pay raise and the merger provides him a better life. He has no interest in the wellbeing of any Delta pilot. His veiws are always completing driving his own benefit.
I would never vote him to represent my interest!!
Congrats on getting pay raises Occam. My question is very simple. Tell me in plain terms what I benefit from the merger. All this abstract talk about a stronger Airline makes no sense to me. A stronger Airline that is going to put me on the street, not improve my quality of life in anyway, displace me from my seat and give my seniority and position to a diffrent group of pilots just to go forward with some merger and trash my career expectations. I would have like a little compensation for all this headache. I have no reason personally to support the distruction of my career.
But cheers to the winners from Northwest Airlines and the investors.
:beer: :beer: :beer: :beer:

 

[Speedbird34]

Let me guess at the answer you were going to lose your job anyway without the great Northwest bringing cash to the table and saving Delta Airlines. You think I believe that line.
No for most of us we are just hoping someone realises that we are losing a lot by this merger and can not see one single positive that is not speculation or benefits that comes ten years or more from now when most of us are already 62 years old. My class had 50 yr olds for what it is worth. they do not have 10 years to wait for a repayment for their eroded quality of life.

:beer: :beer: :beer:

THROW A DELTA PILOT A BONE:beer:

HOPEFULLY THEY HAVE SOMETHING TO GIVE US IN RETURN FOR OUR SACRIFICE BECAUSE THE LINE THAT THE MERGER IS GOING TO SAVE MY JOB BY DISPLACING OR LAYING OFF ME AND MY BUDDIES DOES NOT MAKE ANY SENSE TO ME.

 

[NuGuy]

Occam is bais!! He wants his 40% pay raise and the merger provides him a better life. He has no interest in the wellbeing of any Delta pilot. His veiws are always completing driving his own benefit.
I would never vote him to represent my interest!!
Congrats on getting pay raises Occam. My question is very simple. Tell me in plain terms what I benefit from the merger. All this abstract talk about a stronger Airline makes no sense to me.

It makes more sense than your incoherent ramblings.

Let that be a lesson, kids. Don't drink and post...

Nu

 

[Speedbird34]

It makes more sense than your incoherent ramblings.

Let that be a lesson, kids. Don't drink and post...

Nu

NU you are a Northwest pilot and again you get the pay raise. care to enlighten me on what I get?

:beer:
Nearly forgot to put the picture of a happy merger!!

 

[NuGuy]

NU you are a Northwest pilot and again you get the pay raise. care to enlighten me on what I get?

What do you get? Well, my friend, one day, you get to be in the presence of my august personage.

At that time, the angels will sing and you will bask in heavenly light that comes only from standing before me.

You will fall to your knees, and say "how could I have been so foolish as to doubt you".

But fear not, I am given to forgiveness.

Nu

PS Lighten up, Francis...

 

[Speedbird34]

DAL pilots should not be furloughed for the retirement of NWA dc-9's, in what conceivable scenario would that be fair?

Tell your MEC. They already know it. I am sure that it will be taken in to account. The is kind of like yelling at someone for busting a check ride before it has even began.

With all due respect to you as a fellow Delta pilot. The Northwest guys have always used this forum to promote their interest and what their expectations are. I learned loud and clear from them that seniority is not for sale, Benefits are a thing of present, growth can change etc. Why must I believe in a stronger Airline. Has the future suddenly becoming predictable. I am just pushing my view and sending a clear message that I believe 100% that we are the losers in this merger from Delta and want compensation.
You have a problem with us expressing ourselves but you find it alright that the Northwest guys state their position.
It maybe acceptable to you that junior Delta guys do not matter because united is getting pink slips or because I will return to a better Delta in 10 years.
Well I do not work for United, turned down the interveiw. I work for Delta and I believe I have a right to my job and my future. I will do everything I can to get treated fairly by the company and our MEC. I do not feel I should be sold down the river and I sure would not rejoice at my own misfortune to put a happy face on the situation.

THROW THE DELTA PILOT A BONE!!

 

[Speedbird34]

What do you get? Well, my friend, one day, you get to be in the presence of my august personage.

At that time, the angels will sing and you will bask in heavenly light that comes only from standing before me.

You will fall to your knees, and say "how could I have been so foolish as to doubt you".

But fear not, I am given to forgiveness.

Nu

PS Lighten up, Francis...

Your alright NU. I look forward to flying with you!!:laugh:

 

[Speedbird34]

I can promise you this FIN, the only amount of DAL guys that will hit the street is the amount that they have hired. Trust me they will not want to take out six seats in every 76 seat jet. All of the previous furloughs will be safe. It is the 670 or so DAL guys and the 176 NWA guys on the bottom that need to be worried. Fact is that neither union cares nor do they need to.

Am I supposed to be thrilled by your statement.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Thrilled, No it is just fact. I am in your boat as well.

Fact is that we are speculating on what the JPWA and SLI will entail. No one really knows except for a few. Some have tidbits, but the fact is that you will have in in front of you very shortly. Both sides (MEC wise) have been singing a different tune over the last few months. Have you wondered why? We ALL need this merger, even if it hurts what you or I or they, think is coming to them. There are no guarantees. What this merger does, Long term is give your company and your career a better chance than your counterparts at other companies. That is worth more that a few bucks here and there.
I want a fair SLI as you do. I want to make sure we take the hit if it our jets parked or NWA takes a hit if their jets are parked. That is fair, and our MEC is addressing it. Wait and see what it agreed to. We will vote on the PWA, and probably will have to deal with the SLI. Know for a fact that doing this with our NWA counterparts is much better than having a third party decide our fate. It may come to that, but it may not. Prepare for the worst and hope for the best. If you do not like what it does for you, speak with your vote, as I will.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

My comments about our whining we not only directed at you but everyone. Fact is that we are lying in bed with each other. We cannot change that, so make the best of it.
From ones perspective or another the other one may get the better deal. They are getting more money, we are getting less. Would you prefer that they are not at parity with us? Do you think that having a guy flying next to you pi$$ed off at you is a good thing? Do you want to deal with that for the rest of your careers? Ask some NWA guys how they feel about going to work and dreading who they are flying with. If we have anything less than parity, we are opening ourselves to a whipsaw. I prefer to get a modest raise, NWA go get a sizable one and be able to sit down and have a great conversation with the person I am flying with for the next 30 years. I like coming to work, I would hate to have that change. With all of the other BS in this job, at least I can still enjoy sitting up front with someone that has the same experiences as I, and share a few hrs chatting about this and that. Dealing with someone that hates ME(DAL or NWA) the company and how they got screwed is a miserable way to earn a paycheck. If I wanted that I would go get a desk job.

 

[Speedbird34]

My comments about our whining we not only directed at you but everyone. Fact is that we are lying in bed with each other. We cannot change that, so make the best of it.
From ones perspective or another the other one may get the better deal. They are getting more money, we are getting less. Would you prefer that they are not at parity with us? Do you think that having a guy flying next to you pi$$ed off at you is a good thing? Do you want to deal with that for the rest of your careers? Ask some NWA guys how they feel about going to work and dreading who they are flying with. If we have anything less than parity, we are opening ourselves to a whipsaw. I prefer to get a modest raise, NWA go get a sizable one and be able to sit down and have a great conversation with the person I am flying with for the next 30 years. I like coming to work, I would hate to have that change. With all of the other BS in this job, at least I can still enjoy sitting up front with someone that has the same experiences as I, and share a few hrs chatting about this and that. Dealing with someone that hates ME(DAL or NWA) the company and how they got screwed is a miserable way to earn a paycheck. If I wanted that I would go get a desk job.

The Northwest pilot could hate me and the merger or vice versa. It depends on how much or who gets screwed the most. Right now if I lose my job and get laid off because of northwest packing their Airplanes. I can assure you that it will be a while before I share a drink with a Northwest pilot on a layover.
I will deal with it but I will surely resent them and the entire job at the new Delta as a whole. It may just become a place to earn a living. I did not get this job to be made a loser and I do not expect the northwest guys to suffer either. But people should be careful about getting windfalls for only one pilot group.
Hoping for the best and a fair intergration process!!