Awa/usairs Arbitration In !

[Bringupthebird]

Look at whats happening in this country! The middle class is eroding, and it seems like its gonna be a two class society in this country!

I hate to break it to you, but it's already a two-class society, but the easy access to credit masks that fact. In the good old days the poor knew they were poor. Now the poor think the Suburban they really can't afford parked in the driveway of the home they really can't afford makes them middle class, while they buy groceries with a 4th credit card.

 

[Bringupthebird]

Merger integration is always a b!tch... I'm sure the airport/hotel vans are going to be lively where the routes and layovers overlap... .

Waddya mean? The first crew to the van tells the driver the other flight is an hour late!

 

[BenderGonzales]

Absolutely remarkable. I admit that I expected the post 1999 hires to be stapled. (Although I could have argued that those hired by AWA after the merger announcement should have been placed below the furloughees -- they knew what they were getting into.)

But I am mystified as to why those hired in 1987 and beyond were not given SOMETHING for their years of service and the sacrifice they have made for this company. Some of the AWA pilots were 9 years old when their junior counterparts at US Airways was hired!

I would expect mass resignations from ALPA and, very possibly, a retreat from negotiations by East. Why bother with a combined contract now? Keep them separate as long as possible to enjoy the benefits of what little seniority they have.

As far as the post-1999 furloughees, I would imagine that the company will go through the remainder of the list with lightning speed now. Why would anyone return? I would expect the company to be hiring off the street by autumn.

Astounding. I have absolutely no respect for ALPA anymore and I can promise they will never get another dime from me.

(I'm not placing any blame on the AWA pilots who simply fought for the best possible deal and were awarded a windfall.)

 

[FR8mastr]

If it is true that the East pilots presented doh to the arbitrator, then they need to get better lawyers. The Shuttle America pilots presented the same thing in the Chautauqua merger. It was a much smaller scale, but still shows that doh to arbitrator accomplishes nothing. History repeats itself again only on a much larger scale.

No its not true, the basis of it was DOH but with all kinds of adjustments for years of service and fences.

 

[FR8mastr]

From the AWA MEC Chairman:

Fellow AWA Pilots:
As most of you are aware, the MEC received the merged seniority list late last night under a directive by Chairman Nicolau to release the list at a specific time. That list and the decision is on the secure AWA MEC website and available for download.
The MEC is working with the Merger Committee and outside counsel and advisors to determine what the impact of all the conditions and restrictions will be and what effect and impact each of these conditions and restrictions will have on our 1865 pilots.
Clearly, I have concerns about this list. While on the surface it may appear to many that we prevailed in our ideas about the construction of the list, I will say that placing 517 AAA pilots on top of our Captain list is problematic. Add to this picture a potential change to Age 60 in the very near future (more on that in a bit), a potential third merger and/or industry downturn, and I start to worry.
I hate to be the wet blanket, but from prior experience, I know that this is just the start of a very long process to interpret and enforce the hearing board’s decision, and the pilots of America West pay me to look at and analyze that big picture. We will continue to analyze, interpret, defend and communicate to you as we learn more. Please remember that this merged list cannot be utilized by management until a joint contract is in place.

Yea he has concerns about 517 senior AAA pilots, most of whom will probably be retired before the list is ever integrated. A potential 3rd merger? WTF? Is he worried about a comet taking out Tempe and possible shortening an 05 hires carreer too? And finally he is worried about an industry downturn, well he should'nt, his 05 hire now has 1700 guys below him (all senior) to protect him.

 

[Groucho]

Yes for those who want to work here, get the applications and resumes ready US will be hiring off the street very soon in large numbers.

 

[WSurf]

Yes for those who want to work here, get the applications and resumes ready US will be hiring off the street very soon in large numbers.

And they won't have problems at all getting people!

 

[BenderGonzales]

Shiny jet syndrome claims another generation of morons.

 

[Saabslime]

Would the STFD crowd kindly tell me what that is going to accomplish? I'm sorry you feel you got screwed but what exactly did the company have to do with the integration methodology that was used by the arbitrator and pilot neutrals? And what's with all the personal attacks flying around like we're members of some rival gang in the hood? Talk about misplaced anger. If vengeance is your thing and you somehow think that it Will bring about a justice to your perceived wrong doing, I ask you to just take a step back, think with a clear head, and find a more constructive avenue. We're all going to have to co-exist around here for a long time to come and it's up to us as to how we want our work environment to be in the future. For the record, on a percentage basis, I went back wards in seniority with this award but I'm not going to hold it against any of the east guys personally or the company. It is what it is and I'll move on.:beer:

 

[Tejas-Jet]

This kind of misplaced anger only helps to drag the company down and make the competition stronger.

But in retrospect...one should observe the differences in career progression between a company that grows from within and one that grows through mergers.

Growth plan, cost control, corporate culture, consistent profitability...If you have that, you won't need mergers

 

[WSurf]

Shiny jet syndrome claims another generation of morons.

Bingo!

 

[FDJ2]

Astounding. I have absolutely no respect for ALPA anymore and I can promise they will never get another dime from me.

Ready! Shoot! Aim!

ALPA has a merger policy, but ALPA did not make the final decision on how the policy merger would be implemented.

Both the East and the West pilots made their case to a third party arbitrator who listened to the arguments from both sides, interpretted the merger policy and then rendered his decision.

Now exactly how is it that you blame ALPA for this? What in the merger policy do you have a heart ache with?

 

[Superbird]

Sorry guys, but furloughed USAirways pilots were not employed by the carrier at the time of the merger, therefore brought nothing to the table.

What does 15-20 years of seniority get you at USAirways right now? Maybe middle of the road First Officer seniority on 737/A320? What did you expect to happen? Be upgraded overnight? After the first 521 USAirways pilots got DOH, the rest of the active got approximately 'relative' seniority.

As for the furloughed pilots, AAA MEC signed a letter in the Transition Agreement that effectively said the returning furloughed pilots would be junior to AWA's most junior pilot. How many of the furloughed pilots really planned to return? The company went throught the whole list of recalls for th E-190 and began calling 'poolies'. Many fo the Furloughed pilots are employed at other carriers and do not plan to return.

What about the pilots who left USAir and hired on at AWA, taking a chance, whom then merged with AAA. Which seniority did they get? At the time of the merger they brought a job to the table as opposed to their furloughed status at USAir...no job.

From what I've read on this board, the only thing that would have made East pilots happy is DOH. Thats putting all you eggs in one basket.

Superbird

 

[PHXFLYR]

This kind of misplaced anger only helps to drag the company down and make the competition stronger.

But in retrospect...one should observe the differences in career progression between a company that grows from within and one that grows through mergers.

Growth plan, cost control, corporate culture, consistent profitability...If you have that, you won't need mergers

...and regrettably to all except those who work there,the only airline that has figured that out is Southwest.

PHXFLYR

 

[Doug Parker]

Bendhimover said,

"Absolutely remarkable. I admit that I expected the post 1999 hires to be stapled. (Although I could have argued that those hired by AWA after the merger announcement should have been placed below the furloughees -- they knew what they were getting into.)"

NOBODY was hired after the merger announcement - there were people in training and 40 or so in the pool, but ALL were already hired. BTW, I didn't see any of the poolies names on the combined list.

I still wish that the ATA merger would have happened instead of the TITANIC acquisition...........


.

 

[Fast43]

Well, congrats to the AWA folks on your windfall.

I am exactly where I expected to be on the list, and am not surprised. But you cannot be serious if you feel Mondo didn't get screwed. Continuous active service since 1988 and junior to a 2005 hire from AWA, YGBFSM! The lack of fences (too small and will be revoked upon age 65 which seems to be on the fast track) seriously damages the progression of junior East pilots who had career expectations of massive attrtition. Now the AWA pilots will enjoy that attrtition.

Now, that said, this will be very unfortunate for all LCC employees. Right or wrong (and yes it's wrong but completely understandable) there will be ramifications from the East pilots that will hurt everyone. We gotta realize that the individual pilots from AWA are not at fault here and shouldn't be the target of our anger and frustration. OTOH the West posters here who offer misguided opinions as fact and who seem giddy that the East folks were spanked are fair game for those who still care. Have fun and good luck to us all, we'll need it!

Mr. Swaayze

I guess I am looking in the wrong place. I just can't find the part of the ALPA merger policy that says time in service means anything. Using your logic all the guys from Eastern, Braniff, TWA etc are owed better seniority placement whereever they are working because the have 15 years and gave up soooooo much blah blah.

A new company was started and ACTIVE workers were merged exactly as the merger policy directed. Career Expectations is the yardstick not bleeding heart stories of "sacrifice" The east sides MEC absolutley wrecked those guys by incorrectly portraying their expectations.

 

[trainer8]

That's the problem Trainer, this circus we call a profession is going down the tubes! Is this job still a profession?
Look at whats happening in this country! The middle class is eroding, and it seems like its gonna be a two class society in this country!
Back in the 70's CEO's made 16-20 times more then there average worker! Now in this country you see CEO's making 300-400 Times as much money!! See the trend!
So with all thats going on, its hard to remain professional!

And I ask again, is this really a professional job?

Yes, it is. The unprofessionalism comes from what take place outside the cockpit. Reading this thread, with the rhetoric and name calling (idiots, grandpas, etc,), mystifies me. It's not isolated to one pilot group. And I'll be yanking gear for these guys soon? Wow.

 

[PHXFLYR]

Yes, it is. The unprofessionalism comes from what take place outside the cockpit. Reading this thread, with the rhetoric and name calling (idiots, grandpas, etc,), mystifies me. It's not isolated to one pilot group. And I'll be yanking gear for these guys soon? Wow.

Man,that's sweet.The ink isn't even dry on the combined senority list yet and we have our first CEL pilot whining already. If you think you can do better somewhere else we all, both east and west, invite you to give it a try.


PHXFLYR

 

[Turtle21]

Oh yeah he can do better. And if he isn't samrt enought to run now then he will get everything he deserves!

 

[PlaneDrvr]

Oh that one is real easy to answer, because Mr. Colello was unemployed at the time Mr. Odell was hired and working...

WD.

Well, you can correct me if I am wrong (or just 'rant away'), but Mr. Colello was working as a E-170 Capt. on the US Airways mainline certificate. Just because it was all called "MDA" does not change the 'fact' that the E-170 at the time was operated as a 'Mainline a/c.'

All a/c on the US Airways certificate, over which the 'Company' (meaning US Airways) excerises 'operational control' (meaning dispatched through US Airways), are 'mainline a/c'....this is a 'fact' and clearly stated in the collective bargaining agreement. If the Arbitrator did not recognize this, then he as in error.

This issue is currently in greivance/litigation and will be resolved in his favor.

Just for what's it worth. Now continue to 'rant away.'

DA