AWA to hire 80+ more

[Tomct]

Formula 1: Hope that things work out for you which ever way you go! I'm sorry for all of the furloughed guys/gals! Fly Safe!

 

[StopNTSing]

I am in the pool as well- interviewed in march. Getting closer to the bottom of the list at my present employer- looks like the furloughs are going to stop after August (hopefully).

Trying to decide if I want to be at the bottom of ATA's list waiting to see if we ever recover fully and if SWA is going to keep us as a codeshare partner. Or do I want to be at the bottom of AWA's list dealing with all of the seniority integration issues and possibillity of getting furloughed after the merger is completed.

F1:

If it were me, I'd stay at ATA. This code-share is working out better than anyone expected, and SWA is moving quickly to expand it. I believe ATA is realigning to become the defacto international operation for SWA (something I'm less than thrilled about, but we'll save that for another time), and that could mean growth for ATA pilots.


P.S. No more F1 for me until I see Bernie & Max's heads on a platter!

 

[Formula1]

P.S. No more F1 for me until I see Bernie & Max's heads on a platter!

Yes, my interest in Formula 1 has declined since the whole Indy fiasco- I am switching to MotoGP now- watched Hayden win his first MotoGP race yesterday at Laguna- it was an awesome race getting to see an American win a race at home here in the USA. And Collin Edwards finished 3rd (also an American).

 

[Guppiedriver]

Even better, Edwards finished second. Rossi was third.

 

[PositiveRate]

"I wouldn't be it too much of a hurry to leave any job to go sit on the bottom of an AWA list. Regardless of what is said, cutbacks have to happen once the merger goes through."

Captain O,

What facts do you base this argument on? Please, spell it out.


To the poolie vs. furlough argument...I know it's a heated debate and I empathize with both sides, but I don't see the company bringing furloughed pilots in to fill those vacancies...I was told the classes would be filled with those currently in the pool.

 

[Formula1]

Even better, Edwards finished second. Rossi was third.

Guppiedriver,

You are correct sir, my dislexia is kicking in again.

 

[Captain Overs]

"I wouldn't be it too much of a hurry to leave any job to go sit on the bottom of an AWA list. Regardless of what is said, cutbacks have to happen once the merger goes through."

Captain O,

What facts do you base this argument on? Please, spell it out.


To the poolie vs. furlough argument...I know it's a heated debate and I empathize with both sides, but I don't see the company bringing furloughed pilots in to fill those vacancies...I was told the classes would be filled with those currently in the pool.

Dude do you even have any clue about the airline history? Oh, wait. You're probably a "low time wonder" hired by AWA with little or no PIC time. So you wouldn't be old enough to be a student of airline mergers and history.

I'm sorry I don't mean to belittle. It's a known fact that the Airways cost structure is way above where it should be. I believe it's somewhere around 11 cents a mile. AWA is great at around 7 or 8. Is that correct? So with needing to bring down the Airways cost and get rid of overlap of the two airlines then where is that going to come from? Also with Oil continuing to inch ever so higher that adds tremendous costs. I know you will be operated as seperate companies for awhile. So where are these cuts going to come from? Please inform me, and don't give me the "ALPA says.....". ALPA doesn't care about your jobs. I work for an ALPA carrier and all they really do for us is lobby Washington. That is how they protect our jobs.

Sorry, I'll get off my soapbox, but please educate me on how being on the bottom of the AWA list at this point in time is better than being somewhere else, even a stable regional.

 

[PositiveRate]

"I'm sorry I don't mean to belittle."
Yes you do.

"So where are these cuts going to come from? Please inform me..."

Many cuts have already been announced. The big savings include bringing previously outsourced work in-house...namely IT services and others. Less management, cheaper facilities in PHX, less redundancy in various corporate departments are just a few of the cost savings measures. I think we're around 7 cents bytheway.

Only time will tell if the bottom of the AWA list is a good place or not...

 

[Captain Overs]

"I'm sorry I don't mean to belittle."
Yes you do.

"So where are these cuts going to come from? Please inform me..."

Many cuts have already been announced. The big savings include bringing previously outsourced work in-house...namely IT services and others. Less management, cheaper facilities in PHX, less redundancy in various corporate departments are just a few of the cost savings measures. I think we're around 7 cents bytheway.

Only time will tell if the bottom of the AWA list is a good place or not...

You're right, with your continued ignorance I do mean to belittle. I'm sure those cuts you mentioned will really help. You probably think a bandaid will fix a flesh wound. Your logic sounds like management trying to become profitable by slashing employee wages. We saw how that worked. I think you may be in for a rude awakening. I'd send your resumes back out to all the regionals.

 

["Luke"]

Back in 2000 I met an Air Tran pilot who was happy to be working there and he attributed getting hired to the fact that he didn't have a degree; therefore Air Tran was more confident that he would not flow through to a major airline. He was the fisrt to admit that they were underpaid and the future of the airline was uncertain, but if he is still there now he would be a senior captain, and it looks like they are doing pretty good. I also have some friends at Southwest, who in the past, have stated that they wish they felt they should be compensated for their work the same as the majors (this was also back in 2000), and they also wished they could fly some other aircraft other than the 737 (just for a change) and do some international flying.



My point is, applying for a carrier during their rough times may not be such a bad decision. Much like the stock market, you want to get in when they are down (or early), hope they peak when you’re on board, and get out (retire) before they start back down. Most everything happens in cycles, so how long can a carrier stay on top, and who is heading to the top? It's a gamble.



Some of the posts on this board are from pilots who are worried for their job and fear they may not be represented in a fair fashion during the AWA / US merger. That's understandable, and I'm not sure how the cards will fall on that. There is one thing that I whole heartily agree on though, and that is that every US Air pilot that thought enough about AWA to submit, and keep current an application, should be offered a position (or at least an interview) with AWA.

 

[JetMonkey]

You're right, with your continued ignorance I do mean to belittle. I'm sure those cuts you mentioned will really help. You probably think a bandaid will fix a flesh wound. Your logic sounds like management trying to become profitable by slashing employee wages. We saw how that worked. I think you may be in for a rude awakening. I'd send your resumes back out to all the regionals.

Boy, you sound pretty rude there Capt. Underpants. I guess with your 15k+ places you above most where your at and this gives you a nice place to talk down to us, you sound like you were never at the bottom. You were once wondering how many there were gonna hire behind you, so you can just check you oversized hat at the door thank you very much. And FYI, there's only 30 flights that overlap between the companies and there were four new destinations that were anounced yesterday. Thier short on pilots, we too are short so, I think Positive Rate can safely put away his resume as well as all of us on both sides. You? well, how bout puttin away that fat ego uh?

 

[Captain Overs]

Boy, you sound pretty rude there Capt. Underpants. I guess with your 15k+ places you above most where your at and this gives you a nice place to talk down to us, you sound like you were never at the bottom. You were once wondering how many there were gonna hire behind you, so you can just check you oversized hat at the door thank you very much. And FYI, there's only 30 flights that overlap between the companies and there were four new destinations that were anounced yesterday. Thier short on pilots, we too are short so, I think Positive Rate can safely put away his resume as well as all of us on both sides. You? well, how bout puttin away that fat ego uh?

Monkey,

Now at least you sound like a somewhat intelligent guy. My original position was not that I've never been to the bottom of the list. I've paid my dues many times over. I simply think positive rate didn't have a good argument. My point was that I don't think I would want to be on the bottom of your list. Why? Not just because of the merger but everything else that's going on right now. Fuel prices are going to be the death of everyone if it continues. I don't care how great your business plan is. When you're losing several million dollars I don't think a few million in cuts is going to be the long term answer. But like everyone else I'm just a dumb pilot with an opinion.

 

[brewerdog]

it's a tough question

loose one job to loose another? guess that's the story of the airline pilot

 

[Tomct]

Fella's, Fella's, Please! Remember, we are LIVING THE DREAM!!!

Where else can you sip a coke at 35K with the best seat in the house?

 

[HAL]

Captain Overs,

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt because of your experience, but unless you have read the SEC filings and related paperwork on the merger (like many pilots at the two companies concerned have) I wouldn't be spouting off about what a sham the merger will be.

There are signifigant cost savings in the areas that Positive Rate mentioned and more. IT, management, facilities etc are are substantial costs to USAirways that will be eliminated or greatly reduced in the combined company. The one thing I am absolutely sure of is that Doug Parker would not go ahead with the deal unless the cost savings were real and obtainable. I wouldn't say the same about almost any other CEO I know of in this business. In a couple of years, either Positive Rate and I will be happy, or you will be able to gloat. Only time will tell.

And since you said it:

Dude do you even have any clue about the airline history? Oh, wait. You're probably a "low time wonder" hired by AWA with little or no PIC time. So you wouldn't be old enough to be a student of airline mergers and history.

I will say that there are no 'low time wonders' hired here. Every single pilot I've met has been knowledgable, experienced, and well versed in how airlines operate these days - and in the past. The captains I've flown with in the last year have also said the same thing - that this latest group of people hired at AWA is among the best they've ever seen there.

So again, unless you have flown with these people, degrading them without knowing them personally only shows you own lack of judgement and class.

HAL

 

[321 busdriver]

Incorrect. The company has not been offering leaves for some time now. If you want to make a change in employment, then you have to resign.

An assistant chief pilot in my recurrent last month said the same thing - about 40 starting in October. They're trying to keep it a little quiet because they know USAirways guys would blow a fuse if they knew it was coming.



As for the 'who to offer the jobs to', the problem is that AWA has already interviewed these guys in the pool and offered them a job when it becomes available. If the USAirways guys wanted the jobs here they should have come over and interviewed like the rest of us. They wouldn't have had to resign their seniority over there, so as the company sees it it's their choice, and has been as long as AWA has been hiring.

What happens to our new-hires after the merger is another story - one that will be settled as the lists are integrated.

HAL

 

[OnTheDole]

I think he was refering to the furloughed UsAir pilots - they could come to AWA as a new hire and keep their UsAir senority number as AWA doesn't require that they resign it.

 

[321 busdriver]

But USAirways does require it.

I think he was refering to the furloughed UsAir pilots - they could come to AWA as a new hire and keep their UsAir senority number as AWA doesn't require that they resign it.

 

[HAL]

Yes, I was referring to currently furloughed USAirways pilots. No airline requires you to resign your seniority if you find work while on furlough.

"Attention all furloughees. We don't have a job for you, we won't be paying you anything, but you are not allowed to find other work in the career you trained for. Go on welfare and wait for our call. That is all." I don't think so.

There was a USAirways furloughee in my new-hire class at AWA a year ago. He is still on the USA seniority list, as are all the other USA furloughees I've met here.

HAL

 

[brewerdog]

T is right - we sure got the best seat and it beats flippen burgers

 

[Tomct]

Brewerdawg, AMEN Broda!

 

[Saabslime]

If you're a US furloughee and you come over to AWA before the PID and integration of the lists, your subsequent seniority once the lists are merged will be based on your AWA number, not your number on the US list. You may technically still have a number over there but it won't mean jack. Can't have it both ways.

 

[Reebo]

Captain Overs,

And since you said it:

Dude do you even have any clue about the airline history? Oh, wait. You're probably a "low time wonder" hired by AWA with little or no PIC time. So you wouldn't be old enough to be a student of airline mergers and history.

I will say that there are no 'low time wonders' hired here. Every single pilot I've met has been knowledgable, experienced, and well versed in how airlines operate these days - and in the past. The captains I've flown with in the last year have also said the same thing - that this latest group of people hired at AWA is among the best they've ever seen there.

So again, unless you have flown with these people, degrading them without knowing them personally only shows you own lack of judgement and class.

HAL

Well, I know of a few hired at AWA with NO PIC time. Many Eagle F/O's, a few corporate dudes, some Mesa 1900 F/O's, and even a guy from Air whisky who can best be described as a MARGINAL aviator. I know every airline has them, but to say AWA has none is not correct.

 

[PositiveRate]

HAL and Jet, thanks for taking the high road. Assuming that DP is right and that the company will be viable in the long term, this should work out just fine for us.

Oh wait, Captain O says we should be careful because cutbacks are imminent...and if you're in the pool and you're lucky enough to be called to class, don't be stupid. Stay at Mesa...they offer a modicum of career stability that is worth holding on to. Seriously, the CASM's just don't align and fuel is $$...this merger is going nowhere. Please!

Like HAL said, in a couple years the junior AWA guys will be happy at a growing carrier or you will be able to gloat. The way I see it, either way, you're pretty much a prick.

 

[Captain Overs]

HAL and Jet, thanks for taking the high road. Assuming that DP is right and that the company will be viable in the long term, this should work out just fine for us.

Oh wait, Captain O says we should be careful because cutbacks are imminent...and if you're in the pool and you're lucky enough to be called to class, don't be stupid. Stay at Mesa...they offer a modicum of career stability that is worth holding on to. Seriously, the CASM's just don't align and fuel is $$...this merger is going nowhere. Please!

Like HAL said, in a couple years the junior AWA guys will be happy at a growing carrier or you will be able to gloat. The way I see it, either way, you're pretty much a prick.

We'll see. I just don't want to hear you crying on this site if things hit the fan. Then again you will be a PPuussyy because you take this site way too seriously.

 

[brewerdog]

I would take the job if offered, beats dragging the ditch in the twatter, not that it is a bad job just that there must be something better and I know the ditch will always be waiting

 

[MK82Man]

Hiring at AWA -- YES!

Back to original topic on hiring: Joevollers is correct. The word I (personally) got from an ACP was that we will hire for October and November training (that is from 2 weeks ago). We are short bodies at Vegas for sure and I know the PHX guys want to get some movement. There are some long-time reserve sitters there now. Cactus73 – we can’t wait for furloughed USAir guys before we hire from the street. New blood is needed today in Vegas. Anyone work the hurricane on Sunday night? The poster that said we ran out of reserves is correct. I know two Captains that got Involuntary Pay because they were re-routed out of the 11 PM goes into the 10 PM goes as scheduling “shelled- gamed” bodies to cover the schedule due to inadequate staffing. Don’t think AWA can hold off until a merged list is agreed on. That is costing us money today due to inadequate numbers. Fly/n/High, your right! The drop/pick up system doesn’t work when you are flying 83-88 hours a month, nobody can pick up what you want to drop because there is no beans left in the bucket. I’ve had several posts of complete giveaways and nobody stepped forward – in my mind, folks working to hard to pick it up (even two day trips!). So I think you will see us (at a minimum) bring on some of the poolies in October. I think you are joining a great team and one that is going to get better with the USAir deal. Be realistic and try to take a balanced approach – a few ney sayers in the crowd but I think you find most AWA guys looking forward to working with the USAir guys. I am. Nobody can promise no furloughs, but I think most of us feel it is highly unlikely.

On the merged pilot list: up to 100 days of negotiation once we get an approved PID and then to arbitration if no agreement by the 100 days (could take another 50 days in arbitration) and the ALPA president (and merged parties) can agree to extend the deadline …. Could be well into next year before any combined list is even presented. Training Department is already accelerating recurrent for guys because they have too much training capacity with the lack of new hires. That’s not efficient and costly to maintain a big training department with no new pilots coming on property.

On the merger issue. My personal feeling is there will not be any AWA furloughs. I have high confidence in Doug Parker – the vast majority of other AWA pilots I meet say the same thing, not everyone, but most I think. Not everyone at AWA agrees that every USAir furloughee should be brought on/interviewed before new hires. The US Air MEC made the LOA with their US Air Management and we will have to wait to see what our MEC proposes with respect to them and what is finally adopted between the two MECs. Some at AWA feel all pilots looking for work should have the same opportunity: Mesa, Horizon, etc, should not have to wait behind 1000+ US Air furloughees. If you are furloughed from US Air don’t wait for the “system” to protect you. Apply and try to network to get aboard here now. In any case, whatever is proposed by our MEC is what AWA pilots will line up behind.

On the leaves of absence offered, the numbers were very small. If I remember correctly, 1 FO and 1 Capt at LAS in August, so they really don’t impact the shortfall that exists today at LAS. 1/75 is small potatoes.

HAL, JM, and PR – thanks for holding the high road with your posts. Our goal is to pass along factual information, offer our opinion, educate others about AWA from our perspective, and help new guys get aboard without flaming dudes in cyberspace we don’t know.

Luke – you’ve got great wisdom for all of us. In this industry it is really tough to tell where the grass is the greenest. Riding the storm out with your current employer or jumping ship is never an easy task. Good luck to all. TWA dude -- you rock as always, make sure your voice is heard as we integrate the lists – you’ve got to much experience to stand on the sideline.

 

[FLYLOW22]

Either you are flame baitin' or Don't really know what you are talking about---
Crap wages eh?--

Refresh my memory how you NJA guys are doing?

Flame baiting... no. I mean what I said.

As for your question. NJA pilots make not only crap wage, we make BULL$HIT wages.

 

[321 busdriver]

A year ago that was true. To the best of my knowledge, that no longer applies.

Yes, I was referring to currently furloughed USAirways pilots. No airline requires you to resign your seniority if you find work while on furlough.

"Attention all furloughees. We don't have a job for you, we won't be paying you anything, but you are not allowed to find other work in the career you trained for. Go on welfare and wait for our call. That is all." I don't think so.

There was a USAirways furloughee in my new-hire class at AWA a year ago. He is still on the USA seniority list, as are all the other USA furloughees I've met here.

HAL

 

[BraveSirRobin]

Hi all,

Well I'll chime in as one of the poolies.

I've heard many answers for how many of us there are. (ranging from 45-80)

Many of my friends who have gone through recurrent/transition training recently have been hearing the same thing...new hire classes around sept/oct with the pool empty by the end of the year.

Will I go if/when the call comes? I'm leaning faily strongly towards yes.

Obviosly the big concern is how the US Air furloughee's get treated. I sure would like to have it resolved before I have to decide, but I live in vegas....I'll roll the dice if I have to.

I have called my friends on the street from US Air to get their opinion. They are hearing from the union an unrelenting "Your job is secure", but hold little hope.