Attention Tsa Jumpseat Under Attack

[redbook]

Whose seniority are you talking about..??? There are 2 different lists. No one got jumped over, Period...

You're just pi$$ed you didn't get to fly the 70 seaters. Nothing was stolen from you, you just didn't get additional aircraft. Yes it is very simple.

The tsa seniority list that the original g0jet boys came from, the list that they wanted to climb over. And we agree, it is very simple.

Whipsaw, alter ego. Junior pilots become management pawns and screw their fellow pilot over. Very simple. Keep posting alternate universe lies wont change the facts.

 

[TSA145]

To clarify the "jumpseat war" thing on *************************s.
The reason they get denied is because they are being turned down by every airline (except obviously on TSA and maybe United ??) to have a jumpseat agreement, not because of a "jumpseat war". Now in the case of jumpseating and getting denied on TSA, what would you expect? Besides I have heard of TSA captains letting them on anyway.
Further (even though we are two companies), TSA's pass dept issues them free passes on AAConnection and AA/AE flights thing that not even some of our pilots can get since their equipment and/or domicile may not support the AAConnection side of the operation. What a joke.
SP, DT, PP ancd others even went to the initial rally and stood with us against *************************s and then cross the over. What a bunch of scumbags

 

[LabMonkey76]

Argue carefully on the battleground so as to not get fired as some of our fellow pilots have, however..... the memo says that no OAL crewmembers are allowed in the flight deck. OAL being very general here, however the GOM section 1-3 4.1 Under "ACM credentials and check in requirements" Part B number 1 says that "Other Airline (OAL) Flight Crewmembers/Dispatchers" are not allowed in the cockpit anyway, and never have been. Part A number 14 specifies "Code Share Partner (& Affiliates) Flight Crewmembers" are allowed in the cockpit. This memo only specified OAL not being allowed in the cockpit, and this has always been the case. The memo was only posted on the wall and not distributed to everyones mailboxes. Hopefully this is just more propaganda to piss off the TSA pilots and cause us to unnecessarily piss off other "Code Share Partner (& Affiliates) Flight Crewmembers" as well.

 

[smokey999]

Argue carefully on the battleground so as to not get fired as some of our fellow pilots have, however..... the memo says that no OAL crewmembers are allowed in the flight deck. OAL being very general here, however the GOM section 1-3 4.1 Under "ACM credentials and check in requirements" Part B number 1 says that "Other Airline (OAL) Flight Crewmembers/Dispatchers" are not allowed in the cockpit anyway, and never have been. Part A number 14 specifies "Code Share Partner (& Affiliates) Flight Crewmembers" are allowed in the cockpit. This memo only specified OAL not being allowed in the cockpit, and this has always been the case. The memo was only posted on the wall and not distributed to everyones mailboxes. Hopefully this is just more propaganda to piss off the TSA pilots and cause us to unnecessarily piss off other "Code Share Partner (& Affiliates) Flight Crewmembers" as well.

Well said. You are correct on every point. Nothing has changed. "OAL" has never been allowed up front, unfortunately we are not in CASS.

 

[fuelflow]

To clarify the "jumpseat war" thing on GoSh1t.
The reason they get denied is because they are being turned down by every airline (except obviously on TSA and maybe United ??) to have a jumpseat agreement, not because of a "jumpseat war". Now in the case of jumpseating and getting denied on TSA, what would you expect? Besides I have heard of TSA captains letting them on anyway.
Further (even though we are two companies), TSA's pass dept issues them free passes on AAConnection and AA/AE flights thing that not even some of our pilots can get since their equipment and/or domicile may not support the AAConnection side of the operation. What a joke.
SP, DT, PP ancd others even went to the initial rally and stood with us against GoSh1t and then cross the over. What a bunch of scumbags

Other than Pinnacle and Frontier, I'm not aware of us being "turned down" by every airline. According to our js coordinator, we are getting a new agreement about every two weeks, which is fairly normal. Our commuting pilots have reported very few problems, and no problems on mainline flights. I always check in with the Captain on mainline flights when non-revving to feel them up, and most know nothing about us, and the ones that do don't seem to care. We haven't ever received positive space passes for personal travel - our travel benefits are essentially identical to yours.

I hope this issue is quickly resolved for all parties. As was stated earlier by several people here - there are no good outcomes to starting a jumpseat war.

 

[redbook]

I hope this issue is quickly resolved for all parties. As was stated earlier by several people here - there are no good outcomes to starting a jumpseat war.

dave, there are no good outcomes with alter ego whipsaw carriers. Certainly not for the pilots that have screwed over their fellow pilots.

 

[ReverseSensing]

I always check in with the Captain on mainline flights when non-revving to feel them up...

Talk about your travel benefits!

 

[redbook]

I always check in with the Captain on mainline flights when non-revving to feel them up, .

I wouldn't normally bust chops on spelling and grammar but in this case it is definitely a freudian slip.

 

[Tarzan]

That one was so good, I have to perserve it for posterity.

 

[smokey999]

our travel benefits are essentially identical to yours.

Uhhhhhh, not really. I'm only able to receive passes on code shares or affiliates. At GJ, many employees are receiving passes on American Connection.

 

[fuelflow]

Uhhhhhh, not really. I'm only able to receive passes on code shares or affiliates. At GJ, many employees are receiving passes on American Connection.

TSA's American Connection, which is owned by TSAH. Trust me, we aren't given anything extra in terms of travel benefits. Ask someone in employee travel and they will tell you the same thing.

 

[N1FuelFlow]

I have been reading these posts about GJ now for a while from a third party perspective. I know that I would be pissed also if that happened at my airline. I still have to support TSA pilots. H25B, You must work for GJ's because any pilot reading this regional airline pilot war can understand how the TSA pilots are pissed. Its like saying your son is not guilty after you know he robbed the bank. H25B, my only question for you is CAN you see why the TSA pilots are furious?? Because you sure make it sound like there was nothing wrong with the way GJ airlines was formed. In my mind the real scabs are the ones who Initially jumped over to GJ's. I hope this war is settled fair in a timely manner. Best Regards

 

[h25b]

It's a classic whipsaw and is the same thing that has been going on since the mainline jobs started getting outsourced to the regionals. Just in different form. The TSA pilots, along with many others are just as much part of the overall problem as GJ pilots.

I completely understand why they are furious. Most people usually are when they get what's coming. What goes around comes around...

 

[pilot05]

you're not welcome on my a/c

 

[Snoop]

!!!!!

 

[BoilerUP]

It's a classic whipsaw and is the same thing that has been going on since the mainline jobs started getting outsourced to the regionals. Just in different form.

I don't recall regional pilots (or mainline pilots, for that matter) having a choice in mainline jobs being outsourced to the regionals. That is a management decision.

The TSA pilots, along with many others are just as much part of the overall problem as GJ pilots.

Please, elaborate further on this sentence. I'd care to know exactly what you think the "problem" is, and how TSA pilots specifically (and regional pilots in general) fit into that equation.

I completely understand why they are furious. Most people usually are when they get what's coming. What goes around comes around...

So if I understand your post correctly, you are saying TSA pilots had what they got coming to them because mainline management decided to outsource flying to RJs, is that about right?

 

[h25b]

I don't recall regional pilots (or mainline pilots, for that matter) having a choice in mainline jobs being outsourced to the regionals. That is a management decision.


Please, elaborate further on this sentence. I'd care to know exactly what you think the "problem" is, and how TSA pilots specifically (and regional pilots in general) fit into that equation.


So if I understand your post correctly, you are saying TSA pilots had what they got coming to them because mainline management decided to outsource flying to RJs, is that about right?

I think your boat has left the dock and you guys just need to get over it...

you're not welcome on my a/c

This is exactly the sense of ownership BS that's the problem. You're paid help, not the owner of the airplane so it's not YOUR a/c. No flying is entitled to you and you're not owed a single thing other than a paycheck for the work you've done. If your union wants more flying then it needs to be negotiated in to a contract with EXTREMELY tight scope language (which you obviously didn't have)..

 

[PCL_128]

This is exactly the sense of ownership BS that's the problem. You're paid help, not the owner of the airplane so it's not YOUR a/c.

Why are you even here? You left airline flying some time ago, and you apparently don't want to come back, so why do you come over to the regional boards all the time? We don't need your help, trust me.

As for ownership of the airplane, as far as I'm concerned, when I sign for the airplane, I own the jumpseat and have full authority over who rides on my airplane. If anyone wants to argue with that, then they can have a talk with the FAA, because I can assure you that they will side with me. No one can tell a Captain who is going to ride on his airplane if he feels uncomfortable having them there.

And HoJets scum, just to be clear, you aren't welcome on my airplane either. Go take a hike.

 

[redbook]

It's a classic whipsaw and is the same thing that has been going on since the mainline jobs started getting outsourced to the regionals. Just in different form. The TSA pilots, along with many others are just as much part of the overall problem as GJ pilots.

I completely understand why they are furious. Most people usually are when they get what's coming. What goes around comes around...

More nonsensical, circular logic. One of a very few scab type pilots who work at g0jet, who continue to try to singlehandedly convince the rest of the world that everyone else is wrong. H25b and his ilk fit in perfectly with the misfits who were abused as children and now are in tsa management. Case study...our 500lb company lawyer, who is a former pilot and union leader, and now devotes his days to figuring out ways to terminate tsa pilots.

 

[h25b]

And HoJets scum, just to be clear, you aren't welcome on my airplane either. Go take a hike.

O.K. then, you DO own the airplane... Great, nice to get that straight.

It's interesting that neither one of you can point out where I'm factually incorrect. Like I said before, go ahead and give the FAA a call asking them to back you up on your little jumpseat war. Be sure to let me me what they tell you. My guess would be something along the lines of, "if you're really get that uncomfortable so easily you are way too immature to command a jet aircraft carrying 50 paying passengers...."

 

[redbook]

It's interesting that neither one of you can point out where I'm factually incorrect. Like I said before, go ahead and give the FAA a call asking them to back you up on your little jumpseat war. Be sure to let me me what they tell you....."

they would say we are right about the authority of the pic regarding access to the cockpit. Management has always tried to erode the power of pilots and captains authority. The FAA realizes how important PIC authority is and has put out rulings backing up the PIC from management interference. Yet again, you are factually incorrect, and morally too for joining on the side of those would weaken the piloting profession.

Thank you for continuing to provide these weak arguments and expose the true problems with g0jet.

 

[pilot05]

O.K. then, you DO own the airplane... Great, nice to get that straight.

Wow, I know it’s early, but you may have secured the tool of the year award. Congrats.

 

[BoilerUP]

I think your boat has left the dock and you guys just need to get over it...

Nice dodge - you seem to be doing that quite a bit recently on this issue. You failed to answer or even acknowledge my challenge to your statements. For convenience, your statements are below:

The TSA pilots, along with many others are just as much part of the overall problem as GJ pilots.

I completely understand why they are furious. Most people usually are when they get what's coming. What goes around comes around...

I'm unsubscribing to this thread because I have no dog in this fight...but I would be interested in you elaborating on exactly why you feel TSA pilots are "as much part of the overall problem as GJ pilots" and why TSA pilots "got whats coming" in regards to the Go Jet issue.

 

[LearDriver04]

O.K. then, you DO own the airplane... Great, nice to get that straight.

It's interesting that neither one of you can point out where I'm factually incorrect. Like I said before, go ahead and give the FAA a call asking them to back you up on your little jumpseat war. Be sure to let me me what they tell you. My guess would be something along the lines of, "if you're really get that uncomfortable so easily you are way too immature to command a jet aircraft carrying 50 paying passengers...."

14 CFR 91.3(a): The pilot in command of an aircraft is directly responsible for, and is the final authority as to, the operation of that aircraft.

14 CFR 121.547(a)(3)(i): Has permission of the pilot in command, an appropriate management official of the part 119 certificate holder, and the Administrator; and



The only purpose of this post is to clarify what the FAA has ALREADY said regarding the captain's role/authority regarding EVERYTHING that happens on that airplane. Though I hate to see pilots hating one another, I believe some basic review of the regulations is in order. The captain ABSOLUTELY DOES "own" that airplane when (s)he sits in their seat and performs their duties - if only for the leg that they fly that aiplane...it is theirs!

Peace

 

[h25b]

The only purpose of this post is to clarify what the FAA has ALREADY said regarding the captain's role/authority regarding EVERYTHING that happens on that airplane. Though I hate to see pilots hating one another, I believe some basic review of the regulations is in order. The captain ABSOLUTELY DOES "own" that airplane when (s)he sits in their seat and performs their duties - if only for the leg that they fly that aiplane...it is theirs!

Peace

Well aware of what the regs say as far as jumpseat pax. The fact remains that if you guys want to stir up a big stink with a jumpseat war I wouldn't count on the FAA to save you from whatever retribution the company decides to come down with. They've got better things to do...

 

[redbook]

Well aware of what the regs say as far as jumpseat pax. The fact remains that if you guys want to stir up a big stink with a jumpseat war I wouldn't count on the FAA to save you from whatever retribution the company decides to come down with. They've got better things to do...

thats right keep backing up.

We are not counting on the faa to fight our fight. However the rules are the rules, and some two bit tsa manager can't rewrite aviation law. If you jumpseat on a tsa aircraft, its the captain's decision.

 

[johndt]

I wouldn't count on the FAA to save you from whatever retribution the company decides to come down with. They've got better things to do...

It turns out that they don't. I was in the crew room when the FAA marched in to get one of our pilots his job back. TSA has already fired someone for denying the jumpseat and the FAA was in our chief pilot's office the next day. You're wrong on this one.

 

[ERJFO]

Is TSA CASS???

 

[LabMonkey76]

CASS not really but....

TSA .... CASS (Clearly Administrated (by) Stupid Sonsabit**es) then yes....

 

[N1FuelFlow]

It's a classic whipsaw and is the same thing that has been going on since the mainline jobs started getting outsourced to the regionals. Just in different form. The TSA pilots, along with many others are just as much part of the overall problem as GJ pilots.

I completely understand why they are furious. Most people usually are when they get what's coming. What goes around comes around...

I have to say I had nothing against you till now. You have officialy won the piece of $hit award for the year. H25b people like you are the ones who work for G0Jets. This is why your pilots are not allowed in my jumpseat or a number of other pilots jumpseats who understand this war. I do not work for TSA there for I don't have managment forcing me to let GJ scum onto my airplane. Its pilots like you who make this industry what it is today. I am finished argueing on this thread, I understand and will support the TSA pilots in this battle against scum like GJ's and H25B. I can't believe i'm getting fired up over this and I don't work for either company. Regards