Attention All Nji Pilots

RustyFan

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TO ALL NJI PILOTS

URGENT:


The time has come for us to organize a leadership team from within. Several of us have been formulating ideas and options over the past several weeks. It is now time for us to speak with a clear and unified voice.

Use every available means of communication we have and put the word out, as we will need signed letters of support for the NMB to recognize our effort and guarantee us a seat at the negotiating table. Time is not on our side, as we have 2 years of idleness to make up for.

Things you need to know:


• There are no NJI line pilots representing your direct interests during this merger. As it stands now, our management will enter into talks with NetJets Senior management (Bill Olsen, who is a former Union Official) and a group from NJASAP to negotiate the integration of the two pilot groups.

• NJASAP has a network of lawyers, financial funds, and developed leadership hierarchies to insure their pilots’ interests are protected. We do not.

• If you do nothing and sit on the sideline, you will be working under the rules and be paid a salary negotiated by parties outside of your influence. Your work life as you know it will change and you will have had no say-so in it.

• There is no guarantee than the NJASAP union will not attempt to flush the NJI pilots out of their aircraft at a later date and time.

• Our FO’s still do not have a clear and defined right to upgrade in Gulfstream Aircraft.

• The LOA is only binding until the next LOA is negotiated (you have no career long guarantee to be seat and pay protected).


• NJASAP leaders are split as to how to integrate NJI pilots. There is still an overwhelming majority of NJA pilots who want a staple and a flush of all NJI pilots system wide.


Contact us at njipilots@gmail.com if you are ready to stand up and protect your career. Forward this email to all NJI crews, spread the word, the time has come to protect ourselves. We must carefully analyze our options and take the steps to protect our careers for the long run. There is nothing we can do at this time to stop the inevitable merger, but we can and do have the right to engage ourselves into the process to make sure our voices are heard. Do not let the NJA pilots make you think all is lost. We have a strong cadre of ex-airline pilots who know how to fight this current situation and make it fair for us.
 

brokeflyer

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• There are no NJI line pilots representing your direct interests during this merger. As it stands now, our management will enter into talks with NetJets Senior management (Bill Olsen, who is a former Union Official) and a group from NJASAP to negotiate the integration of the two pilot groups.

Good thing we have NJA guys that are flying with you...otherwise that would be true.

• NJASAP has a network of lawyers, financial funds, and developed leadership hierarchies to insure their pilots’ interests are protected. We do not.

Yes you do, you are part of njasap now.

• If you do nothing and sit on the sideline, you will be working under the rules and be paid a salary negotiated by parties outside of your influence. Your work life as you know it will change and you will have had no say-so in it.

Once again, this is a single union, You all have the same rights to vote, etc. Just be glad you don't have to pay back dues!!!

• There is no guarantee than the NJASAP union will not attempt to flush the NJI pilots out of their aircraft at a later date and time.

That is only SLIGHTY illegal action to do. It's about as subtle as attemping to run from the cops.


• Our FO’s still do not have a clear and defined right to upgrade in Gulfstream Aircraft.

Seniority???

• The LOA is only binding until the next LOA is negotiated (you have no career long guarantee to be seat and pay protected).

Stop being paranoid, your making US nervous now.


• NJASAP leaders are split as to how to integrate NJI pilots. There is still an overwhelming majority of NJA pilots who want a staple and a flush of all NJI pilots system wide.

Not to sound like a broken record, but wrong again. Thr seniority list is already in place via date of hire. I know you fly Gulfstreams but it would be kinda unfair to just out you all at the top. Even though you all are really nice people.


Contact us at njipilots@gmail.com if you are ready to stand up and protect your career. Forward this email to all NJI crews, spread the word, the time has come to protect ourselves. We must carefully analyze our options and take the steps to protect our careers for the long run. There is nothing we can do at this time to stop the inevitable merger, but we can and do have the right to engage ourselves into the process to make sure our voices are heard. Do not let the NJA pilots make you think all is lost. We have a strong cadre of ex-airline pilots who know how to fight this current situation and make it fair for us.

Who are you trying to fight here? Sounds like your fighting the very union that is GIVING you the protections you need. Frankly im suprised you guys haven't butt raped by the company already.
 

SafetyTheSeat

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The seniority list has been integrated-I know this because I lost 50 numbers to the NJI guys that are ahead of me....

The only fence is the one protecting your seat..

The work rules you are about to receive include- overtime, sick leave, PTO days- to name a few..

You need to read the contract.... But hey, go ahead organize and fight this - lose the protections you have now for your DATE OF HIRE seniority number.. It could be a date of UNION membership seniority number which I prefer...

Dip .........
 

brokeflyer

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nokidding...what a jerk. And I thought those NJKI guys were nice too....

Your making ALL the nji guys look bad ya know.
 

RJ Bum

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Are you guys intentionally trying to make this an “us against them” situation? Or are you guys going to be constructive and become more involved with NJASAP so we all can be on the same page so both of our interest can be looked after?
 

Mountain Troll

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Ughhh, what am I missing? Now just for the record again, my younger Bro is NJI. He just got the email above. If management wants the union in, and in on their terms, WHERE THE HE*% IS THE FIGHT? OMG are you kidding? This isn't a fight against management. Who is being forced to do anything? Who is being repressed? IS there a group who is being treated badly or un-fairly? Once again, stupid F*%kin pilots will screw it up for everyone. Can you ever learn to keep your mouth shut? Lets tell everyone how great the money is and the work hours or destinations. Now, how did that workout? Industry get lower wages, more duty rigs and so on. RS got less expensive G pilots. Work rules and so on get better. Get over it. There is give and take on both sides of the deal.
 

glasspilot

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I feel like I'm pointing out the obvious here but:

Every group of people in the world feels like they're "special" in some way. Be it the patriotism of country, or the fans of a local sports team, the human species likes to make groups of US and THEM. I'm sure it evolved over millions of years and helped glue communities together for the common good.

Now, getting to present matters. Obviously there are pilots at NJI that do not feel like part of the NJA "group". There are, I'm sure, many reasons for this. First, I would imagine that they would view themselves to be abit elite.

Before you blow a gasket, I also suspect that most NJAers would agree that flying a GIV or GV around would be preferable to some Ultra or Bravo.


NJI has historically been the more desirable company to get on with. And that reflected in NJIs hiring standards which, until very recently, have always been much more competitive than NJA.

Many of the guys shooting off their mouths here from NJA would never have got hired at NJI. They didn't have the experience.

From a NJI pilots point of view they are being taken over by an outside group that is directly threatening their job security. Look at the 2 year GV FO who before was looking at a career flying Gulfstreams. He never had to even think about some Citation or other less desirable aircraft. Now that has changed.

Look at the senior Ultra Captain or even Falcon Captain. He now has Gulfstreams on his horizon.

Right or wrong, these are two different groups. In order to get the groups together then mutual benefits need to be found for each. Otherwise it's just going to be an "us" vs. "them" scenario.

Maybe the shear size of NJA will overwhelm NJI interests, but that would be a shame in my opinion.
 
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brokeflyer

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Look at the 2 year GV FO who before was looking at a career flying Gulfstreams. He never had to even think about some Citation or other less desirable aircraft. Now that has changed.
why would that change?....he can't get displaced.
 

Semore Butts

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Where are you getting you information?

You wrote:

There is still an overwhelming majority of NJA pilots who want a staple and a flush of all NJI pilots system wide.


I'm a Hawker guy, I have no interest (I've said here repeatedly) in flying the "G".

All I have seen as a benefit to me is that NJI won't be able to pick up our fights during the next contract negotiations.

This has been going on for a long time and you suddenly, after it's done have decided you need to organize?

I'm no big authorty on the rules and ramifications, but I think your "horse has left the barn"?

I thought you guys were by far getting the better of the deal.

We have our share of blow hards, but by and large this is a great group of pilots.

I hope things pan out well for all.

Seems to me your issues are between you and R.S., not NJASAP.
 

glasspilot

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why would that change?....he can't get displaced.

A career NOT in the right seat.

Before: couple years right seat of GV, rest of career in left seat of same plane.

Now: FOREVER in right seat of GV, maybe at age 62 move to left seat.


see the difference flyer?
 

brokeflyer

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A career NOT in the right seat.

Before: couple years right seat of GV, rest of career in left seat of same plane.

Now: FOREVER in right seat of GV, maybe at age 62 move to left seat.


see the difference flyer?
there is nothing that says you can't upgade to PIC...i dont understand why an SIC is stuck in the right seat now.
 

ozpilot

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Your guys really need to read the LOA ... then we can talk.
 

realityman

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Uh, did anybody notice the gigantic order for Gulfstreams we just put in?

Okay, they're all the bigger G's. Not sure when deliveries begin, but probably won't be too long.

So, can NJA guys bid into anything but the GIV's? Nope. So where are the captains coming from the crew these new planes? How about current NJI folks! Yeah, I can see the current GIV captains upgrading. but that'll open up plenty of captain spots. Sure, we get 1/3 of them, but how many F/O's are there at NJI? I'm guessing most will upgrade before this integration happens. Some may even be lucky enough to go straight to the bigger G's. Currently, not one of our guys can bid into anything but a captain or F/O on the GIV.

Rustyfan, what the heck are you screaming about? Have you read the LOA? In many ways, you folks are getting the better end of the deal. But feel free to organize and change things for the "better".

By the way, is my memory bad, or do I recall that a while back you were one of the few yelling that if we ever integrated and you were forced to join a union that you'd quit instead? I apologize if I've mistaken you for someone else. If not, shouldn't you be looking for the door?;)
 

Gruman Fan

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I got the email. I agree with rotorhead, we need our own pilots speaking on our behalf during this integration. Enough with the managers already, B.N. and company lied one too many times during recurrent. Otherwise we would have organized two years ago and gotten this whole thing over with then.

Mr. Santulli has stated he has no intentions of keeping the two groups separate; so why not have the pilots hash this out instead of management/the union/Bill Olsen.

I'm not looking at this as "you vs. us". I believe that our group is trying to insure pilots lay the ground work here for the future, and no one else.

Personally, this has a lot of potential in my eyes.
 

Diesel

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As a pilot with really no home. :)

I think its not a bad thing for a group of NJI pilots (nja crossovers should be included too) should sit down with the union and hash everything out then go to RTS and say here is the package we came up with.

We don't need BO he doesn't speak for us (the pilots)
RTS doesn't speak for us (the pilots)
NJI mgmt doesn't speak for us (the pilots)

I don't agree with everything in the letter but I understand its intent. We need to come together as one group and work this out with pilots looking out for themselves not managment saying they are looking out for whats best for us.

I think the union right now is way preocupied with the elections and the archetect who is supposed to lead the NJI integration took off for managment. Hopefully this will go back to becoming a priority.
 

RTRHD

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I don't think BN or anyone else lied. I just happened to be there (swamp)just after the meeting when BN came in and sat down with just two of us. He was really pissed and was just hiding out for a couple of hours and we heard the whole story. Over all I think we got a pretty good deal so far. And RTS and whoever did OK by us. But it would not hurt if we would find out whats going on before its a done deal. But I have never even been close to a Union so what the heck do I know. I do think as someone else said, the Horse may have left the barn.
 
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realityman

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Gruman Fan, RTRHD, and anyone else over there on a more even keel the Rusty, I'm just curious. Where do you see the deficiencies in this thing where you'll be hosed? No sarcasm here. All of a sudden, you seem worried. So there must be something specific you're worried about in this integration.

Seniority has ALREADY been merged, and it's D.O.H., no stapling to the bottom of the list. You're protected there.

No NJI pilots will be displaced from their current position (at time of final integration). You're seat protected.

No one on your side will lose your base. You're protected.

No one will take a pay cut. You're pay protected. In fact, some may see a raise.

There are certain benefits you don't currently have that you will gain by operating under or set of rules. In fact, I believe recently RTS has already made some changes on his own to match our contract (hourly O/T and holiday and extended days?).

As I mentioned before, I believe most of your F/O's will upgrade before the integration happens. Unlikely you'll have anyone already on board becoming a career F/O on the G's.

Rusty's rantings about 'our' lawyers working against you are simply demented daydreams. Once the integration is complete, we're ALL one family. There won't be any 'you' and 'us'. You will be part of the union and could probably actually sue if the lawyers targeted one specific demographic in our ranks to hose down (such as Gulfstream pilots). It's called Failure to Represent. As part of the union, you have protections against that sort of thing.

As part of the union, you can volunteer for any committee or position there is. It'd be a great way to help protect 'your' people. You'll be able to run for office too. In fact, with the wealth of experience you have over there, I'm sure there are plenty of elected positions some of you folks could easily win.

I'm sure the union is open to forming a committee that could help address issues specific to the large G fleet.

On the negative side, you'll probably end up on our crew food program.:(

So given everything I've listed, where do you see problems so big that you feel you need to quickly put together a union of your own? In many ways, you're getting the better deal. How much better do you want it?

The vast majority of our guys are happy to see you, even the ones who are getting worse seniority because of the integration (I'm part of that group too, ya know). This paranoia can only end up ruining what is already going to be a good deal for you folks.

By the way, you are ALREADY getting benefits from our union, and you probably don't even realize it. Have you noticed over the years how many more perks we get at hotels these days? Free breakfasts, free internet, free gym passes, free local calls and faxes, and so on and so forth. And all at lower rates than what the average traveler pays. Who do you think got us those bennies? Hint: Not RTS or anyone in management, and the hotels certainly don't line up to give us as much free stuff as they can.
The NJASAP (formerly IBT 1108) travel committee are the ones to thank! We have a great union that does great things for ALL the pilots!!

But again, I'd like to hear YOUR fears, not what Rusty has planted in your minds.
 
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