Attention All Nji Pilots

[realityman]

Uh, did anybody notice the gigantic order for Gulfstreams we just put in?

Okay, they're all the bigger G's. Not sure when deliveries begin, but probably won't be too long.

So, can NJA guys bid into anything but the GIV's? Nope. So where are the captains coming from the crew these new planes? How about current NJI folks! Yeah, I can see the current GIV captains upgrading. but that'll open up plenty of captain spots. Sure, we get 1/3 of them, but how many F/O's are there at NJI? I'm guessing most will upgrade before this integration happens. Some may even be lucky enough to go straight to the bigger G's. Currently, not one of our guys can bid into anything but a captain or F/O on the GIV.

Rustyfan, what the heck are you screaming about? Have you read the LOA? In many ways, you folks are getting the better end of the deal. But feel free to organize and change things for the "better".

By the way, is my memory bad, or do I recall that a while back you were one of the few yelling that if we ever integrated and you were forced to join a union that you'd quit instead? I apologize if I've mistaken you for someone else. If not, shouldn't you be looking for the door?

 

[Gruman Fan]

I got the email. I agree with rotorhead, we need our own pilots speaking on our behalf during this integration. Enough with the managers already, B.N. and company lied one too many times during recurrent. Otherwise we would have organized two years ago and gotten this whole thing over with then.

Mr. Santulli has stated he has no intentions of keeping the two groups separate; so why not have the pilots hash this out instead of management/the union/Bill Olsen.

I'm not looking at this as "you vs. us". I believe that our group is trying to insure pilots lay the ground work here for the future, and no one else.

Personally, this has a lot of potential in my eyes.

 

[Diesel]

As a pilot with really no home.

I think its not a bad thing for a group of NJI pilots (nja crossovers should be included too) should sit down with the union and hash everything out then go to RTS and say here is the package we came up with.

We don't need BO he doesn't speak for us (the pilots)
RTS doesn't speak for us (the pilots)
NJI mgmt doesn't speak for us (the pilots)

I don't agree with everything in the letter but I understand its intent. We need to come together as one group and work this out with pilots looking out for themselves not managment saying they are looking out for whats best for us.

I think the union right now is way preocupied with the elections and the archetect who is supposed to lead the NJI integration took off for managment. Hopefully this will go back to becoming a priority.

 

[RTRHD]

I don't think BN or anyone else lied. I just happened to be there (swamp)just after the meeting when BN came in and sat down with just two of us. He was really pissed and was just hiding out for a couple of hours and we heard the whole story. Over all I think we got a pretty good deal so far. And RTS and whoever did OK by us. But it would not hurt if we would find out whats going on before its a done deal. But I have never even been close to a Union so what the heck do I know. I do think as someone else said, the Horse may have left the barn.

 

[realityman]

Gruman Fan, RTRHD, and anyone else over there on a more even keel the Rusty, I'm just curious. Where do you see the deficiencies in this thing where you'll be hosed? No sarcasm here. All of a sudden, you seem worried. So there must be something specific you're worried about in this integration.

Seniority has ALREADY been merged, and it's D.O.H., no stapling to the bottom of the list. You're protected there.

No NJI pilots will be displaced from their current position (at time of final integration). You're seat protected.

No one on your side will lose your base. You're protected.

No one will take a pay cut. You're pay protected. In fact, some may see a raise.

There are certain benefits you don't currently have that you will gain by operating under or set of rules. In fact, I believe recently RTS has already made some changes on his own to match our contract (hourly O/T and holiday and extended days?).

As I mentioned before, I believe most of your F/O's will upgrade before the integration happens. Unlikely you'll have anyone already on board becoming a career F/O on the G's.

Rusty's rantings about 'our' lawyers working against you are simply demented daydreams. Once the integration is complete, we're ALL one family. There won't be any 'you' and 'us'. You will be part of the union and could probably actually sue if the lawyers targeted one specific demographic in our ranks to hose down (such as Gulfstream pilots). It's called Failure to Represent. As part of the union, you have protections against that sort of thing.

As part of the union, you can volunteer for any committee or position there is. It'd be a great way to help protect 'your' people. You'll be able to run for office too. In fact, with the wealth of experience you have over there, I'm sure there are plenty of elected positions some of you folks could easily win.

I'm sure the union is open to forming a committee that could help address issues specific to the large G fleet.

On the negative side, you'll probably end up on our crew food program.

So given everything I've listed, where do you see problems so big that you feel you need to quickly put together a union of your own? In many ways, you're getting the better deal. How much better do you want it?

The vast majority of our guys are happy to see you, even the ones who are getting worse seniority because of the integration (I'm part of that group too, ya know). This paranoia can only end up ruining what is already going to be a good deal for you folks.

By the way, you are ALREADY getting benefits from our union, and you probably don't even realize it. Have you noticed over the years how many more perks we get at hotels these days? Free breakfasts, free internet, free gym passes, free local calls and faxes, and so on and so forth. And all at lower rates than what the average traveler pays. Who do you think got us those bennies? Hint: Not RTS or anyone in management, and the hotels certainly don't line up to give us as much free stuff as they can.
The NJASAP (formerly IBT 1108) travel committee are the ones to thank! We have a great union that does great things for ALL the pilots!!

But again, I'd like to hear YOUR fears, not what Rusty has planted in your minds.

 

[QOL_is_great:)]

RustyFan not very bright

To the individual (RustyFan) who started this thread; you're not very bright. I believe BROKENFLYER in post #4 said it the best. A few other folks had some great points too.

You honestly think you can organize now that you are on the seniority list? How the hell does that work? You really need to read the LOA or have someone sit and explain it to ya. You must believe some surreptitious plan has been formed against the NJI pilot group. You and the rest of the NJI pilot group will do just fine so relax. In fact, the NJI FO group will have more opportunities, if they decide to grab them. Nobody wants to be a career FO. Right?

I'd like to know where you received your info that an overwhelming number of the NJA pilot group wants the roughly 300 NJI pilots at the bottom of the list. Please show me your facts, numbers and/or the data you have to support such a claim. I suspect there is isn't any and that you pulled that statement outta your six to make a point. If you have facts to support your statement then I'll man-up and say I was wrong in calling you not very bright. Until then.....

I do feel for you guys about coming into the unknown, but all you have to do is talk to any of us or the union, yes the one you're trashing. Remember, you're part of it now. Don't start off this courtship on the wrong foot. Yes, you'll have some knuckleheads here that'll be pissed to have NJI join the NJA family and have "bumped" them from something. You guys are part of the family now. If a person gives you crap then utilize the resources that the union offers and fix the problem.

Good luck and I hope your attitude shuns the dark side.

 

[RTRHD]

Gruman Fan, RTRHD, and anyone else over there on a more even keel the Rusty, I'm just curious. Where do you see the deficiencies in this thing where you'll be hosed?

Speaking for myself only. I am happy, I wish we heard more but you guys are doing good in my opinion. Can we get those zip ties? I spilled salsa on my tie the other day and had to wake up 30 minute early to tie another one. Too short then too long. That's my stand Zip Ties!!!!:nuts:

 

[gunfyter]

I am still lobbying for Cowboy boots and Leather flying jackets...

It was good enough for Wilbur and Orville...:crying:

 

[flyjetspeed]

Geez Rusty, talk about a day late and a dollar short!
This thing is all but over. I will agree with you and Rotor that we should have a seat at the table but how do you propose we select that person? The only system we have in place is the Group Leader process for better or for worse. Maybe one of the more active Group leaders can be invited to sit in on the talks, I would nominate C.T. or D.N. for the pilots and G.D. for the FA's if there was a forum, other that F.I., to do it. At least there would be a bit more openness to the process than there has been so far. I do believe B.N.
has our best interests in mind, as always, but he also must be thinking how this is going to work from a managers perspective, as he should. Like it or not R.S. has already made an agreement with the elected
leadership of the union and formalized that agreement in a document we know as LOA 01-013. ALL of the major issues are dealt with in that
LOA and the NJI pilot's have been treated quite well in it.Yes there are some NJA pilots who believe we have been given way too much for very little but they are a small minority. B O. speaks for Woodbridge now because he was the author of that LOA that treats us so well. R.S. put him in there because he wants a fair deal for both groups. The overriding concern is to achieve an integration that is cohesive, not devisive. If we were to begin a drive to form a "counter union"
as your post suggests, I fear that would be devisive and possibly do more harm than good. A better approach would be to become involved in our new organization and run for office effecting change from within. IMHO

 

[hyflyin]

You NJI guys need to get a grip of those few rogue individuals. As mergers of lists go you have done quite well and as an NJA guy I would be happy to see this go to an arbitraitor, because thats where mergers of lists always end up, and bring some things back home to the NJA group. Arbitraitors give and take, its just how it works. Have we not learned anything from AA/TWA, USAIR/AWA, green book/redbook? Any of this ringing any bells?? This agreement is fine, most on both sides seem to be able to live with it. Leave it alone and lets move forward. The only thing that can come from rewriting the LOA are many years of turmoil and I for one am not interested in seeing this job ruined because some flatworm feels inadequate flying a smaller a/c.

Leave it alone and lets move forward as a single group, it will not only benefit us but the company as well.

Rant over!

 

[RTRHD]

You NJI guys need to get a grip of those few rogue individuals.

Now how can we do that, I mean free country public board and all. But I am here to tell ya if we don't get leather jackets and those zip tie's by integration there's. Well I won't really do anything but I can bellyache and that can get old.

 

[hyflyin]

Now how can we do that, I mean free country public board and all. But I am here to tell ya if we don't get leather jackets and those zip tie's by integration there's. Well I won't really do anything but I can bellyache and that can get old.

We have clip ties too. I know nothing about leather jackets only the peyano jacket that sheds the water from your torso and drops it all over your legs.

:beer:

 

[Semore Butts]

Are we back on the Leather Jackets?

Alright! Lets do it!

If I were you NJI guys I would tell R.S.;

R.S., The NJA guys have struck us a pretty good deal and welcomed us with open arms!

Should'nt we do something for them?

"R.S., as a show of goodwill and brotherhood and to bring us together as a group we should get the whole fleet";

"Perrone Leather Jackets"!!!!!!!!!!!

"And Zip ties too"!!!!!

Coming from you guys it should work right?

I love these NJI guys!!!!!!!! You guys are great!

Thanks! Team!

 

[RTRHD]

Alright! Lets do it!

If I were you NJI guys I would tell R.S.;

R.S., The NJA guys have struck us a pretty good deal and welcomed us with open arms!

We should do something for them R.S.?

"R.S., as a show of goodwill and brotherhood and to bring us together as a group we should get the whole fleet";

"Perrone Leather Jackets for all"!!!!!!!!!!!

I love these NJI guys!!!!!!!! You guys are great!

Thanks! Team!

And Zip Ties. But Leather Jackets were Gun's Idea. And now back to the infighting......

 

[CA1900]

And Zip Ties. But Leather Jackets were Gun's Idea. And now back to the infighting......

It's not infighting unless we're part of the same group.

See? Progress already! :laugh: