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ATC and Wx Below Mins

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Way2Broke

Member
Joined
Feb 24, 2005
Posts
2,882
Does ATC have to tell you if the field has gone below mins? ATC has always been very helpful to me when trying to "get in" somewhere, but I was wondering what they are required to do when the wx dops.
 
I don''t think so, how would they even know the mins for your particular airplane. I think they just report any significant changes.
 
Yes we do, as soon as possible. Sometimes "possible" just happens to be right after you pass the FAF inbound......



Controller's Handbook, 7110.65



4-7-10. APPROACH INFORMATION
a. Both en route and terminal approach control sectors shall provide current approach information to aircraft destined to airports for which they provide approach control services. This information shall be provided on initial contact or as soon as possible thereafter. Approach information contained in the ATIS broadcast may be omitted if the pilot states the appropriate ATIS code. For pilots destined to an airport without ATIS, items 3-5 below may be omitted after the pilot advises receipt of the automated weather; otherwise, issue approach information by including the following:

1. Approach clearance or type approach to be expected if two or more approaches are published and the clearance limit does not indicate which will be used.
2. Runway if different from that to which the instrument approach is made.
3. Surface wind.
4. Ceiling and visibility if the reported ceiling at the airport of intended landing is below 1,000 feet or below the highest circling minimum, whichever is greater, or the visibility is less than 3 miles.


5. Altimeter setting for the airport of intended landing.
[SIZE=-2]REFERENCE-[/SIZE][SIZE=-2]
FAAO 7110.65, Chapter 2,
Section 7, Altimeter Settings.[/SIZE]


b. Upon pilot request, controllers shall inform pilots of the frequency where automated weather data may be obtained and, if appropriate, that airport weather is not available.
PHRASEOLOGY-
(Airport) AWOS/ASOS WEATHER AVAILABLE ON (frequency).



1. ASOS/AWOS shall be set to provide one minute weather at uncontrolled airports that are without ground-to-air weather broadcast capability by a CWO, NWS or FSS observer.
2. Controllers will consider the long-line disseminated weather from an automated weather system at an uncontrolled airport as trend information only and shall rely on the pilot for the current weather information for that airport.
3. Controllers shall issue the last long-line disseminated weather to the pilot if the pilot is unable to receive the ASOS/AWOS broadcast.
NOTE-
Aircraft destined to uncontrolled airports, which have automated weather data with broadcast capability, should monitor the ASOS/AWOS frequency to ascertain the current weather at the airport. The pilot should advise the controller when he/she has received the broadcast weather and state his/her intentions.



c. Issue any known changes classified as special weather observations as soon as possible. Special weather observations need not be issued after they are included in the ATIS broadcast and the pilot states the appropriate ATIS code.

d. Advise pilots when the ILS/MLS on the runway in use is not operational if that ILS/MLS is on the same frequency as an operational ILS/MLS serving another runway.

EXAMPLE-
"Expect visual approach runway two five right, runway two five right I-L-S not operational."


[SIZE=-2]REFERENCE-[/SIZE][SIZE=-2]
FAAO 7110.65, Altimeter Setting Issuance Below Lowest Usable FL, Para
2-7-2.
FAAO 7110.65, Approach Information, Para
5-10-2.
14 CFR Section 91.129 Operations in Class D Airspace, Subpara (d)(2).
[/SIZE]

e. TERMINAL: If multiple runway transitions are depicted on a STAR procedure, advise pilots of the runway assignment on initial contact or as soon as possible thereafter.


Also:



2-8-2. ARRIVAL/DEPARTURE RUNWAY VISIBILITY
a. Issue current touchdown RVR/RVV for the runway(s) in use:
1. When prevailing visibility is 1 mile or less regardless of the value indicated.
2. When RVR/RVV indicates a reportable value regardless of the prevailing visibility.
NOTE-
Reportable values are: RVR 6,000 feet or less; RVV 11/2 miles or less.

3. When it is determined from a reliable source that the indicated RVR value differs by more than 400 feet from the actual conditions within the area of the transmissometer, the RVR data is not acceptable and shall not be reported.
NOTE-
A reliable source is considered to be a certified weather observer, automated weather observing system, air traffic controller, flight service specialist, or pilot.
4. When the observer has reliable reports, or has otherwise determined that the instrument values are not representative of the associated runway, the data shall not be used.
b. Issue both mid-point and roll-out RVR when the value of either is less than
2,000 feet and the touchdown RVR is greater than the mid-point or roll-out RVR.

c. Local control shall issue the current RVR/RVV to each aircraft prior to landing or departure in accordance with subparas a and b.
 
Last edited:
ATC is required to issue weather as in the previous post. As far as letting you know it is below mins, well, they do not know the mins. Different operators have different mins and there are other factors; e.g. MEL's.
 
We were leaving Santa Monica one early foggy morning and ATC helped us out. The RVR was just under our 135 take off mini. We had the paxs loaded and I advised the ground controller to call us back when the RVR went up. He asked us what we needed and then said by the time we taxi to the end it would be above what we needed! Cool guy.

Vector4fun, does his happen very often?
 
i've seen that happen with the density altitude at D.F. mexico city once or twice.....

-casper
 
SCT said:
Vector4fun, does his happen very often?


Ummm, since our ASOS and RVR readings are recorded by computer nowadays, *I* am not going to put my butt too far out on a limb by fibbing about the RVR. I'm usually happy to call Ops or a crew at the gate though, to let them know the vis is improving, might want to crank up at least one...

Years and years ago, when FSS was still around at all sorts of smaller fields, we'd sometimes call over and get them to take a five minute "special", especially if it was the last flight of the day. That may still happen at places with human observers, but I wouldn't know anything about that..... ;)
 
Below mins was not a good way to put it I guess. Thank you very much for your help Vectors.
 
ATC Help

Great info.

Once overheard a phone conversation one time that went like this

Pilot ' Hi, this is XXX###, how's the weather....[pause] oh, ok...well our ETD is in 30 minutes, and we'll need 1800RVR..[pause]..thanks, see you later'

At an airport I've been to, they'll turn the lights up all the way for you, until it registers a better RVR. [step 5 i think]

I was going into an airport one time served by SWA. Expecting to hold for the weather to improve - 500 RVR fog. The winds were a 90 degree crosswind at 12 knots, so conditions were improving. SWA checks on (#2 for the approach) and tells the controller that they'll have to hold till the 'weather goes up to 1800 RVR...oh, and we'll need a 10kt wind out of the west with that also, thanks'
 
SCT said:
We were leaving Santa Monica one early foggy morning and ATC helped us out. The RVR was just under our 135 take off mini. We had the paxs loaded and I advised the ground controller to call us back when the RVR went up. He asked us what we needed and then said by the time we taxi to the end it would be above what we needed! Cool guy.

Vector4fun said:
Ummm, since our ASOS and RVR readings are recorded by computer nowadays, *I* am not going to put my butt too far out on a limb by fibbing about the RVR. I'm usually happy to call Ops or a crew at the gate though, to let them know the vis is improving, might want to crank up at least one
Well, since SMO doesn't have RVR, it shouldn't have been too difficult to bring he vis up:cool: .
 

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