ATC and Wx Below Mins

[minitour]

what would be the point of a higher altitude on a vector for the ILS,

Because the FAF on an ILS is GS intercept...so once you intercept you're inside the FAF...and can continue the approach if weather pops below minimums (unless you're 91...then you can try it anyway).

...just curious if that applied to the ATC side of things as well.

-mini

 

[Lrjtcaptain]

Well, there is a gray area with what you just said, GS intercept is the FAF. That has been argued since the day I started my instrument. Whos says under part 91 you cant attempt the approach anyways, and well, 121 and 135 not too much knowledge there as I only flew part135 a short deal, and well....I don't want to get into the sketchy ordeal. The Key is RVR, because ive had less then 100ft on OVC, and less the 1/4 mile....RVR 2400.....lets do it. It should make no difference what alt you intercept the ILS at, the WX at the airport is going to make no diff....hence why I ask for a report at the OM......wait 5 seconds...oh by the way RWY32 RVR006......your gonna make an atempt anyways....I don't understand that 135 driver stuck in ahold for 45 mins, a CE550 makes it in with current wx...part91, a GV makes it in 91, a 135 kingair in the hold....vectored for the ILS, outside the marker, what is the RVR??? ....dont ask me that or you going back to PYE to hold for another 30 mins....ill read it to you when i feel the time is right, as it is my job and im required to when less the 6000ft or less then 1sm

 

[FlyboyPhil]

FAF is GS intercept at the published altitude, or at a lower altitude if authorized by ATC... so intercepting it 25 miles out doesn't mean you are at the FAF.

 

[Lrjtcaptain]

Well, im not gonna argue a FAF for an ILS....that is not relavent in this case.....the comment was made, will a controller clear you at a higher alit.....what difference does it make what alt. your cleared for the ILS, the WX at the field is not gonna change.

 

[Ill Mitch]

I remember back in the good ol' days when CNO would look to the left and the vis would be a mile and a half...then look to the right and the vis would be a mile and half. They would then add the two together and call it three miles.

 

[rubicon789]

Do freight dogs have mins? :nuts:
Don't ask ATC for weather till after you cross the FAF, then you can legally shoot the approach no matter what the WX.

 

[A Squared]

Well, im not gonna argue a FAF for an ILS....that is not relavent in this case.....

Actually, it is relevant, that's the issue at hand. Mini was suggesting that there would be a benefit to giving an higher intercept altitude bacause you would intercept the g/s sooner, therefore be inside the FAF sooner, in case wx deteriorates.

The only problem with that theory is that, as Flyboyphil pointed out, it's not considered the FAF unless you're at the gs intercept altitude specified on the IAP.

 

[minitour]

Actually, it is relevant, that's the issue at hand. Mini was suggesting that there would be a benefit to giving an higher intercept altitude bacause you would intercept the g/s sooner, therefore be inside the FAF sooner, in case wx deteriorates.

The only problem with that theory is that, as Flyboyphil pointed out, it's not considered the FAF unless you're at the gs intercept altitude specified on the IAP.

That's the part I was missing...which clears it all up.

Thanks!

-mini

 

[Gemboy75]

I don't believe you can land regardless of inside or ouside the FAF part 91 or otherwise.

We all know the requirements to leave DH or MDA and required flight visibility is listed.

AD 97-1A states that RVR is controlling to flight visibility and therefore regardless of your position on the approach if you land and you were notified that RVR was below your mins for your specific catagory of approach, well the way I read it you've just violated an FAR.

Just joined up glad to see ATC folk use this page!

 

[minitour]

I don't believe you can land regardless of inside or ouside the FAF part 91 or otherwise.

Land, no...you've got to have the visibility required by the approach.

But to shoot the approach is where the weather can get you pt 121 or 135.

Part 91, if it's 0/0 you can shoot the ILS all you want...but if you don't have the required vis. you can't land.

Pt 135/121, you can't start the approach if it's below minimums (vis/rvr) but...if you've started the approach and passed the FAF before weather goes below minimums, you can continue...and land if you've got the required visibility at landing.

-mini

 

[Lrjtcaptain]

well, the controller is required to tell you RVR for the rwy if it is reported at less the 6000 on the RVR meeter or vis is less then 1mile....why not just call up tower on the approach and then tell them you don't want to hear what RVR is until your established......they will comply, they don't care, as long as the read it before you hit the pavement

 

[rubicon789]

why not just call up tower on the approach and then tell them you don't want to hear what RVR is until your established

Why say more than you need to?