Ata

[njcapt]

Dave (sorry if I've got the wrong guy), I took the information provided me by the people who represent me and my interests, did a little investigation on my own, listened to every opinion that I could find, and couldn't support your conspiracy theories with a single shred of evidence.

What did ATA do with all that money they saved while paying when paying their flight deck crewmembers (among others) 1/2 price for all those years?

I don't know, maybe they spent it on top shelf liquor and expensive whores. Is the money there now? No. They probably used it to fuel the 727's. Lemme get this straight. You want to punish the managers you think plundered the company by steering the company you work for onto the rocks? I don't think I'm going to follow you there.

[font=&quot]I would rather keep what I have for the short time we have left.

As a 7 year Captain you stand to make approximately $1000 more a month if this set of LOA's fails to be ratified. If the company fails just one month earlier due to our failure to concede, you will be out of a whole year's worth of extra pay. You better start picking up some serious open time if you feel this scenario is inevitable.
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[font=&quot]Now the 64 million $ question; did they keep the cash on hand and credit ratings low on purpose for all those years intentionally? We will never know.

... uuuhhhh, OK. I guess that's a really sophisticated tactic ATA management used to keep us down. [sarcasm]I've used that tactic myself to keep my interest rates high and limit my access to capital[/sarcasm].

Really, I don't want to argue about this (inspite of what my signature line says). I utilized every source I could to make an informed decision. Some people are going to disagree with me, and I can live with that. That is why we are voting on this - you know, democracy and all that. There seemed to be an information void on this forum, so I made my feelings known.
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[tz800ca]

[font=&quot]

Dave (sorry if I've got the wrong guy), I took the information provided me by the people who represent me and my interests, did a little investigation on my own, listened to every opinion that I could find, and couldn't support your conspiracy theories with a single shred of evidence.

You have the wrong guy, KJ, if that is who you are.

That is why it is a democratic society, you have your opinions and I have mine.

Just one question (OK, maybe two or three): Were you here during the previous contract? Were you here during the ENTIRE 2 years it took to negotiate this deal? Do you remember how that deal was sold to us?

I can see why guys like you would want this agreement SO bad. They say you say YES, we get 717s. Great! You get to upgrade, right? Not so fast. The company would and will ditch up to 10 of those 737s like a hot potato. Why do you think the fragmentation letter is worded like it is? The 737 crews will get displaced and it will still take you 4 years to upgrade because of the displacements and the deliveries of the 717s will not start for at least 6 months. If this does not hold true for you, my apologies. I have run into F/Os recently that have that exact short-sided view.

Lemme get this straight. You want to punish the managers you think plundered the company by steering the company you work for onto the rocks? I don't think I'm going to follow you there.

So, saying no is "steering the company you work for onto the rocks"?

The numbers tell a different tale. Our measly 42.5 million is about 1.4% of 3 Billion in revenues over the two years (which is conservative). That’s .014xxxxx carry the zero as far as you wish. If that 1.4% is driving the CO on the rocks as you say, I guess that I am guilty as charged.

I prefer to look at the big picture. If that 1.4% would make a difference in the GRAND scheme of things, I would say HECK YESS! If $59,000 a day will save this company I will buy you a beer. No, I will buy you a keg of beer. So, will the money help? Only if the folks down south straighten up their act. They have not shown me any such behavior recently.

If the company fails just one month earlier due to our failure to concede, you will be out of a whole year's worth of extra pay. You better start picking up some serious open time if you feel this scenario is inevitable.

That is exactly what they want you to believe! Sign on the dotted line or the doors close, no 717s, furloughs, blah, blah, blah.

It is not like we will write them a check for 42.5 million on 7/1. It would be a theoretical check of about $59,000 a day. If the company shuts the doors over that kind of money, we are in real trouble and me keeping that 1 grand a month is pretty smart. My savings account is sufficient, my resume is up to date. I am ready either way.

As for the credit and cash thing, not really a conspiracy thing at all. I am not a financial wiz but it sort of makes sense that has actually happened to make ATAH less attractive to a hostile takeover. Poor credit and No Cash. On the other hand Good Credit, low lease rates on airplanes, lots of cash on hand, and a good business model would make us attractive to everyone (pre 911 that is). During the pre 911 days it working fine, but who knew 911 would come along and the industry would be in such dire straights? ALPA itself has said our basic finances have not changed in some 10+ years. Why is up for debate.

Debate is great, hugh? Especially when you do not get attacked personally.

NJ, was that not Vanguard?

Best Regards

P.S. Dave!?!?!?!? Come on, I thought my grammar and spelling were better than that.
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[njcapt]

Wow, I can't argue with your concise logic (whoever you are).

You win, I'll change my vote to no.

KJ

 

[FlyChicaga]

Any word how people have been leaning on the TA? Curious how the general concensus is.

 

[Noam]

I think it will be voted in.


I'm sure you've heard about our CFO resigning for "personal reasons" a few days ago. Yuck.

 

[SNK]

proposed 717 pay rates

Would somebody in the know please post the proposed 717 pay rates that would be imposed if the LOA package is passed?

Thanks,

SNK

 

[atafan]

8 years at ATA, 8 pretty good years, finally making a little money.

Is Airtran hiring? I'm ready to sit in the right seat again, hope they will consider me.

I've finally lost faith in this Roadshow experiment.

 

[Ty Webb]

Don't laugh. There was a guy in my AirTran newhire class who was an ATA 757 FO with 5 or 6 years invested there. He left for AirTran because he lived in ATL and was tired of commuting. He had been jumpseating on us to MDW for years . . . . finally saw AirTran getting to the point where he would like to work there, and jumped ship.

This was in 2001. before your new contract was voted in.

Anyway, whatever you guys do at ATA, best of luck. I always enjoyed flying on ATA as a pax, and appreciated the rides when I was a 135 pilot, and hope the Company pulls their finances together.

 

[datafox]

NOW, THEREFORE, the Parties agree as follows:



A. For purposes of this Letter of Agreement, the term “New Aircraft” as used throughout this agreement shall pertain to only one aircraft type with no less than one hundred (100) and no more than one hundred and ten (110) seats.



B. New Aircraft Base Hourly Rates: Section 3.A. of the Collective Bargaining Agreement (“CBA”) shall be amended to add the following base hourly rates.



1. The following base hourly rates shall be effective on the date of signing (“DOS”) of this Agreement:



Longevity

Step CA F/O

Year 1 $ 37.50 $ 37.50

Year 2 90.89 45.45

Year 3 93.58 51.47

Year 4 96.29 57.78

Year 5 98.98 64.33

Year 6 101.78 67.18

Year 7 104.54 69.00

Year 8 107.34 70.84

Year 9 110.16 72.40

Year 10 114.28 73.73

Year 11 117.42 75.29

Year 12 and over 120.00 77.76



2. The following base hourly rates shall become effective July 1, 2006:



Longevity

Step CA F/O

Year 1 $ 39.19 $ 39.19

Year 2 94.98 47.49

Year 3 97.79 53.78

Year 4 100.62 60.37

Year 5 103.43 67.23

Year 6 106.36 70.20

Year 7 109.25 72.10

Year 8 112.17 74.03

Year 9 115.11 75.65

Year 10 119.42 77.05

Year 11 122.70 78.67

Year 12 and over 125.40 81.26



3. The following base hourly rates shall become effective July 1, 2007:



Longevity

Step CA F/O

Year 1 $ 40.50 $ 40.50

Year 2 100.00 50.00

Year 3 104.80 57.64

Year 4 109.60 65.76

Year 5 114.40 74.36

Year 6 119.20 78.67

Year 7 124.00 81.84

Year 8 128.80 85.01

Year 9 133.60 88.18

Year 10 138.40 88.58

Year 11 143.20 91.65

Year 12 and over 148.00 96.20

 

[Freight Dog]

These rates are pretty crappy in comparison to Airtran and Hawaiian (other 717 operator). Hawaiian is still operating under Chapter 11, although I think they'll be out sometime this fall.


Source: Airlinepilotpay.com

 

[yaks]

For the record:


B737-800 pay rates for AA effective 5/1/04

Cpt.

Year 6- $149.10
Year 12- $156.12

FO

Year 6- $93.93
Year 12- $106.16

Does not include night or international override.

 

[tz800ca]

8 years at ATA, 8 pretty good years, finally making a little money.

I've finally lost faith in this Roadshow experiment.

Agreed. If this agreement does get in, it will be a GIANT step backwards.

Oh well......

 

[Noam]

These rates are pretty crappy in comparison to Airtran and Hawaiian (other 717 operator). Hawaiian is still operating under Chapter 11, although I think they'll be out sometime this fall.


Source: Airlinepilotpay.com

I agree with you. In some instances they are even crappy compared to Midwest's concessionary rates. Are you surprised? A classic case of eating your young...fresh from the minds of ALPA national.

 

[tzskipper]

For the record:


B737-800 pay rates for AA effective 5/1/04

Cpt.

Year 6- $149.10
Year 12- $156.12

FO

Year 6- $93.93
Year 12- $106.16

FWIW, if the intent is to compare these rates to ATA, here you go:

Captain

AA year 6- 127.23 (adjusted for 75 hour guarantee). ATA - 132.97

AA year 12- 133.22 (adjusted for 75 hour guaranntee) ATA - 145.26

First Officer

AA year 6- 80.15 (adjusted for 75 hour guarantee) ATA - 87.76

AA year 12- 106.16 (adjusted for 75 hour guarantee) ATA - 93.93


The "new" TA will have an amendable date of 07/01/07 (once passed).

The 07/01/07 rates will be as follows:

ATA year 6- 148.82 (75 hour guarantee)

ATA year 12- 181.95 (75 hour guarantee)

(the posting of these numbers is not a shot at the AA group. They did what they felt they had to do, as will ATA.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Nobody likes the fact that ATA is in the position of needing help. The whole idea of the amended CBA is to have a successful airline to negotiate with in 2007.

Fraternally and good luck to all,

Skipper

 

[Splert]

The whole idea of the amended CBA is to have a successful airline to negotiate with in 2007.

Bingo.