Ata

[jobear]

I read that boeing was about to stop making 717, since they felt they lost market for other similar size airplanes on market.

Hopefully if ATA buy some helps them also!

If management in the regional markets would see that see that any RJ is just that an RJ maybe some pressure would be takin off of mainlines. I do not enjoy the thought of working for the next 25 years flying an RJ for peanuts or even cashews. Anything over an hour and a half in any RJ is torture.

Jobear

Trying to turn around any industry

 

[mt2]

Tentative

An agreement was apparently reached today. More info next week following MEC approval, etc.

It's going to be a close vote if the scuttlebutt in the MDW crewroom is any indication. I'd venture to say that it's about 3 to 2 against -- this from people I've talking with...

Take it for what it's worth.

 

[MooseTrax]

This week's MEC announcement says an agreement has been reached and a TA will be out for a vote very soon. The union seems happy with the deal. It shall be interesting to see the concessions, 717 pay scale and what the pay back is down the road. I too have the concerns ATA73PILOT.

 

[ATA73Pilot]

Item#1. Negotiation update- This just in! Your Negotiation Committee has
reached an agreement (TA) with the Company as of this morning Friday,
June 11th. Congratulations for both parties! It has been a long,
carefully executed process that came out with both parties in agreement.
That alone says a lot for the way these two parties can work out
differences.

The union seems happy with the deal.

This is what kills me. It is almost as if this news is suposed to be something we should be celebrating!

This news should be met with much wailing and gnashing of teeth!

We get to cheerfully bear the burden of mismanaged operations while our contemporaries enjoy the fruits of their management's good fortune and decision making.

A sad day for ATA crewmembers.

 

[MooseTrax]

If the union did not negotiate this TA and/or the members do not ratify this TA, then isn't bankruptcy in the near future? I agree with ATA73PILOT's assessment of management, but I think the union is happy to try to keep the company going. Of course all want to make "industry standard pay", but what is that now days with AA talking a 24% cut, Delta getting ready to take some cut, USAir about to go out of business, UAL has taken some cut. I think the better answer is what does the membership think is fair pay and benefits versus what others are doing. And like me, if the pay and benefits are not worth it, then I wouldn't do it. Believe me, I want to see ATA thrive for all involved. Good luck to all the crewmembers on this tough issue and tough vote.

 

[ATA73Pilot]

Moose,

As long as management refuses to participate, through their own salary givebacks, in the saving of ATA from bankruptcy...then they get a resounding "NO" vote from me.

Their excuse that they particpated in pay freezes two years ago holds absolutely no water. Are we, or are we not dealing with imminent financial ruin? Isn't that why they are asking for your salary? If the situation is as dire as has been "sold" to this pilot group, then at the very least upper-level management should be included in the same solution because every resource available should be tapped to keep us out of bankruptcy court.

It can be argued that the previous two years are and were a concessionary two years for the pilot group. This contract was acccepted on that basis because we would be rewarded on the back-end during the last two years for the shortcomings of the first two.

Now we are being asked to hand 40mil. back to the same people who brought us to this precipice in the first place.

It's like handing a new credit card to someone who's already maxed out their other card so they can continue to spend unchallanged and unchecked.

The worst part is that the pilot group is all too willing to hand this money over.

 

[tz800ca]

If the union did not negotiate this TA and/or the members do not ratify this TA, then isn't bankruptcy in the near future? I agree with ATA73PILOT's assessment of management, but I think the union is happy to try to keep the company going. Of course all want to make "industry standard pay", but what is that now days with AA talking a 24% cut, Delta getting ready to take some cut, USAir about to go out of business, UAL has taken some cut. I think the better answer is what does the membership think is fair pay and benefits versus what others are doing. And like me, if the pay and benefits are not worth it, then I wouldn't do it. Believe me, I want to see ATA thrive for all involved. Good luck to all the crewmembers on this tough issue and tough vote.

NO, Bankruptcy is not automatically in the future. The CBA we are currently working under (before negotiations) is already concessionary. Of the majors, AA 737NG Capt of 6 years gets $127.15/hr when adjusted for the lower guarantee vs. the same ATA pilot getting $132.97 at current rates. Americans current rates on the NG are THE lowest in the industry with ATA #2 from the bottom. Here is a link to a chart I threw together to illustrate.



http://webpages.charter.net/ata/Pay.htm



Just compare ATAs pay rates to Americans concessionary package; it is very similar to ours.



What it boils down to is that our Management team is either very savvy or has failed and $42.5 million over 2 or 3 years will not make one bit of difference if we stay out of BK. Either way the pilot group looses. I would rather live under our current CBA and let nature take its course. I will vote NO.

 

[jobear]

Are the pay consessions tied to profitablity? Looking at the charts posted by TZ I really don't see alota wiggle room for the ATA pilots. American's concessed rates are lower but how many NG's does AA fly? And are they tied to any other economic factors? Sorry for all the questions.

Jobear

 

[MooseTrax]

Like I said, I hope you guys at ATA vote for what you believe is right. If that is a yes or no makes no difference to me. At some point enough is enough, and it sounds like you guys are there with the pay issue. I agree $40M for the next couple years doesn't seem like much in the big scheme of things, and I too have a big problem with companies who lay off folks and make them take pay cuts when the top level management continues to make their salaries. If the company needs funds, then it needs to be concessionary all the way around, and the first place to start is at the top......I think it's called leadership by example. Could you imagine if a CEO came out and said they were taking 25% pay cuts at the managment level and looked to the workforce to give something. Now that will be the day! The whole pay issue is a sticky situation across the industry. Good luck. We will all be waiting for the results at ATA.

 

[atafan]

Of course all want to make "industry standard pay", but what is that now days with AA talking a 24% cut, Delta getting ready to take some cut, USAir about to go out of business, UAL has taken some cut. I think the better answer is what does the membership think is fair pay and benefits versus what others are doing.

This attitude kills me. When we were negotiating our current contract we used UAL, AA and others as our current "Industry Standard", this is where we wanted to go. Many said how can you even use these airlines for comparison. Now, the times have changed and so have the LCC's, JetBlue was just starting out when we started negotiating and AirTran was still fighting back. Why would you want to compare yourself or even consider troubled airlines when trying to negotiate pay?

You must negotiate for as much as you can get, by using other airlines as a starting point a bar is set. If ATA settles for something below the bar it will affect all other future negotiations for our peers, possibly bringing the bar down further impacting our future earnings.

IMHO