Ata

[balls deep340]

Any word on delivery dates for these 717s?

 

[njcapt]

Any word on delivery dates for these 717s?

OK. We need to get our collective feces consolidated here.

There is no deal for a new aircraft type at ATA. None. Not even sorta-maybe.

Do I have everybody's attention now?

One of the reasons that the company's allegedly-necessary concession package requested of the pilot group is being met with such vitriolic scorn is that there is no existing deal for new aircraft. Ergo, no increase in fleet size, no rapid increase in upgrades, and no aggregate increase in ATA pilots farting through silk. Just a two year pay freeze... worth $6M the first year, $22M the second and third years to the company. Not really big bucks in the grand scheme of things. So...

Could ATA management just be playing Boeing, Airbus, and Embraer off one another to get the best deal?

Maybe.

Could Boeing (who, by all accounts brought a sweetheart 717 deal to ATA management on a silver platter) have gotten tired of waiting to be asked to dance, and simply yanked the whole thing?

Maybe.

Could this 717 deal simply be a ruse in order to get the pilot group to, once again, fund management's inept running of the airline?

Maybe.

Could monkeys fly out of my butt?

You get the picture.

I'm sure that within several hours of the announcement of a concrete deal for new aircraft the news will be posted (repeatedly, and repetitively) here on the forum. Until then it is a waiting game. I plan to drink beer while I wait, you folks can do what you want.
​

 

[balls deep340]

Just simmer down now. Siimmmmmmmmmmmer down.


Any word on possible # of 717 the company is shooting for?

 

[Dart]

Njcapt....If no deal on aircraft.....why the 100 seat payscale? just a question

 

[ATA73Pilot]

As my colleague NJCapt states:

There is no official deal for a new aircraft. But there have been discussions, presentations, and negotiations for a 100-seat payrate. The company has said it needs 100 seaters to compete and expand.

Unfortunately many pilots have intertwined (sp?) the talks for concessions with the discussion on a new fleet type.

Just as Bush and Co. have mentioned the words terrorist, 9/11, and Iraq enough times in the same sentence that the majority of Americans believe that Iraq had something to do with 9/11....

...the company has uttered "concessions" and "new airplane" in the same breath that most pilots here believe it will take giving in to concessions to obtain the new aircraft type.

Pretty smart on the company's part to create a relationship between the two.

Unfortunately, most here don't make the distinction between the two issues. They feel if they vote down the concessions that the company will then be unable to purchase the new fleet type and ergo be unable to compete in the LCC marketplace. Which if you take to it's furthest misguided conclusion, that would mean the demise of ATA.

So this new concession agreement will pass with a majority. And ATA will get the new airplanes. And the pilots here will once again feel like they "saved" the company in it's time of need.

 

[MooseTrax]

I know that there is no done deal, but a few weeks back your MEC announcement slipped and instead of saying "100 seat aircraft" like he had been for several weeks, used the phrase "717" twice in the same announcement. I agree that the company is probably playing all three, and I hope they are because I would, to get the best deal, but my guess is that the company would like to have more Boeings.

ATA73PILOT--I agree with you on this one, how did the company tie both of these issues together? I have thought since day one that the concessions should be one issue and a 100 seat pay rate another. And if njcapt numbers are right, $6M first year and $22M the next, that isn't a drop in the bucket in relation to acquiring more aircraft.

 

[njcapt]

Just simmer down now. Siimmmmmmmmmmmer down.


Any word on possible # of 717 the company is shooting for?

I'm totally chillin'. However, you can't believe the conjecture that is going on at the ATA pilots' web site. A large number of guys have already spent their first Captain paycheck from an aircraft that is not only not on the property, but without even a handshake agreement for their acquisition.

I don't know where I stand on the concessions (and I plan on reserving judgement until the union gets the opportunity to sell me on the deal when the roadshows start in a week or so), but I'm sure not taking the bait of alleged new aircraft just to get stung by the barbed hook of a two year pay freeze.

I'm on my fifth airline, and my main career goal is to willingly retire from the one I'm at now. Whether this concession LOA will have any effect on my goal remains to be seen.

 

[mt2]

This just in.....

A rumor going around says the 737 guys will not snap back to 2002 contract rates in 2007, instead getting $6-7 an hour less. This while 757 and L1011 guys get more in the snap back. 737 crews financing 757/L1011 raises ?? This will seriously hamper the ability of the Union to get this agreement to pass.

Can't wait to read it all.

 

[tz800ca]

Really........

So this new concession agreement will pass with a majority. And ATA will get the new airplanes. And the pilots here will once again feel like they "saved" the company in it's time of need.

Let me know where you bought that crystal ball, I need a new one. I really hope that you meant that tongue and cheek, if not, get a life.

I would probably wait and read it before making a statement like that. Read carefully, it may not be all it is cracked up to be.......

 

[tz800ca]

This Just In......

MEC VOTED CONCESSIONARY AGREEMENT DOWN!

FOR 1 AGAINST 7

 

[Capt. Kramer]

Where did you hear this from?

 

[Capt. Kramer]

Never mind, I called the MEC hotline and it just came out an hour and fifteen minutes ago. There was a vote last night and it was 6-7 against and 1 that was not present.

 

[HarleyGuy]

Big Hint

So the TA doesn't even make it to the pilots for consideration. I'd say that's a big hint at the nature of these goings-on, unless you think the LEC guys hate themselves and us. It wasn't even a split decision- only one guy said yes. That tells me that this TA was not in our best interests, and I support them (which is easy since I don't have a vote anyway). But I gotta get on board with the 'Simmer down' advice. 'Let us see where this goes...'

HG

ps- The guys I fly with all sounded very unlikely to vote for it, anyway. And they'll all be proved right if we're still wearing ATA hats in a couple years.

 

[storminpilot]

You guys have bigger issues than B717 pay rates

http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/040614/dem032_1.html


Press ReleaseSource: ATA Holdings Corp.


ATA Holdings Corp. Announces it Expects a Loss in Second Quarter
Monday June 14, 6:32 pm ET

INDIANAPOLIS, June 14 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- ATA Holdings Corp., parent company of ATA Airlines, Inc. (Nasdaq: ATAH - News), today announced that it expects to report a loss in the second quarter. The Company had projected a profit for the second quarter in its first quarter earnings call. However, in May, demand for military charter flights was sharply lower than forecast. In addition, the Company has not been successful in increasing revenue from its scheduled service business sufficiently to offset higher than expected fuel prices. <LI>(Logo: http://www.newscom.com/cgi-bin/prnh/20030929/ATAHLOGO-b )

Now celebrating its 31st year of operation, ATA is the nation's 10th largest passenger carrier (based on revenue passenger miles) and one of the nation's largest low-fare carriers. ATA has the youngest, most fuel-efficient fleet among the major carriers, featuring new Boeing 737-800 and 757-300 aircraft. The airline operates significant scheduled service from Chicago- Midway, Hawaii, Indianapolis, New York and San Francisco to over 40 business and vacation destinations. Stock of the Company's parent Company, ATA Holdings Corp. is traded on Nasdaq Stock Exchange under the symbol "ATAH." For more information about the Company, visit the web site at http://www.ata.com .

Caution Concerning Forward-Looking Statements: This communication contains certain "forward-looking statements." These statements are based on ATA Holdings Corp.'s management's current expectations and are naturally subject to uncertainty and changes in circumstances. Except to the extent required under the federal securities laws, ATA Holdings Corp. is not under any obligation to (and expressly disclaims any such obligation to) update or alter its forward-looking statements whether as a result of new information, future events or otherwise.




Source: ATA Holdings Corp.

 

[ATA73Pilot]

Very interesting that this announcement should come a day after the recent "No Vote" by the MEC on the concession package.

 

[UM#1]

It's funny you say that as I was thinking the same thing. I've paid attention to every press release (they auto email to me) from ATA in the last 2 years, especially the ones regarding financials. ATA mgt has never released a forward-looking statement regarding quarter results before the end of the quarter, never. In fact many quarters they have taken as long as a month or longer after the end of the quarter to even post results or hold the live conference call. So this Press release makes me wonder, 2 weeks before quarter ends and on the day after the MEC voted down the TA. Funny, Funny Stuff.

This Press release also makes my decision of "No" even easier. 1st why should I give up pay, (while management doesn't) to a management group that just seem to can't make money because of their bad decisions (like the trans con disaster, can't make money with one of the lowest casms, etc, etc). Second, they are basically saying that the military charter is the only thing making money (which is true), not the scheduled service, but yet they will not D check the L1011's saying it cost to much (which is a whole other story in itself as some people in Indy make up lies because they just want the plane to go away regardless if it makes money quarter over quarter). I'm proud of the MEC coming together quickly and voting it down. I hear that the main reason was that the 737 pay rates didn't jump back in 07'. I can tell you that there were some disappointed people at the hanger in Indy on Monday morning, I wish I could of seen their faces when they found out the MEC voted it down.... let the games begin and my July 1 raise come as it should.....

 

[vetteracer]

Hello all, I was wondering if ATA is accepting applications. I studied there web site and no pilot positions were listed. I extrapolated that they are not accepting apps.


What are the mins for ATA, if and when they decide to hire agian.

Thanks in advance.

Mark

 

[Anaconda]

Hello all, I was wondering if ATA is accepting applications. I studied there web site and no pilot positions were listed. I extrapolated that they are not accepting apps.


What are the mins for ATA, if and when they decide to hire agian.

Thanks in advance.

Mark

the content of this thread actually has you considering sending in an app?

 

[vetteracer]

No, it was actually more out of curiosity and comparison.

Mark

 

[tzpilot]

Actually, I think the TA was voted down by the 7 LEC members present, the 8th LEC rep did not (or could not) attend the confrence call.

Either way you look at it, it must have been a pretty bad deal for such a decisive vote from the MEC. I'm interested to see what will happen next.