ASA VP FLT OPs tries to scare the pilots

[hmmurdock]

I'm with you on this one. Every other airline is facing pay cuts and ALPA is asking for a 17% raise over the next three years for the entire pilot group. PLus other $$. Lets be conservative and say that the average pilot here makes 60K. A 17% increase across the board is about $19m. That comes out of the whopping $41m profit. Regardless of what our DCA says, that is not good business. We run on small profit margins and cutting those in half is pretty stupid. Time for ALPA to get their collective head out of their A$$ and be REASONABLE. Pay cuts are not reasonable either but they are a hell of a lot closer that ALPA.

Gator and 79%...remember that the ALPA proposal is just that, a proposal. The union has to start somewhere and then both sides meet somewhere in the middle. I also keep telling you guys to not forget the Horizon payrates. Our current 70 seat rates are not at all out of line. But asking 70 FO's for 13.5 % is a massive cut and not to mention in extremely poor taste. Do not forget, our union negotiators know what they are doing. They know what the pilot group feels is important because we let them know via surveys,P2P, and speaking directly with union members. Have a little patience and show some confidence in your reps.

 

[Tomct]

Hmmm, good post!

FL990 you hit the nail right on the head. Smoke and Mirrors! I am NOT going to GIVE IN on anything!

Skywst pilots....the ball is in your courts. You guys better realize that he is going to come to ya'll NEXT!! Vote in that UNION next month and G R DONE!!!

Superpooter, I believe that JO is looking for a good lackey and you would surely fit under his desk! By the way, Frank Lorenzo is probably your dad, RIGHT! YOU are a DISGRACE and I hope that you cross the line, you may end up with a few lumps and maybe even find HOFFA!!

79% you had better get a hold of yourself and stop this "self-pitty" BS!! That is EXACTLY what mgmnt wants and you better WAKE UP and take the stand with us, or YOU will be getting a paycut as well as stay in the same seat! Yeah, NOT FUN!! Get it together "STEEL MAN!!!!!"

 

[Ultra Grump]

The fractionals just got a whole lot more appealing!

Don't come to NetJets. Your wussy attitude wouldn't go well here.

 

[gator_hater]

Gator and 79%...remember that the ALPA proposal is just that, a proposal. The union has to start somewhere and then both sides meet somewhere in the middle. I also keep telling you guys to not forget the Horizon payrates. Our current 70 seat rates are not at all out of line. But asking 70 FO's for 13.5 % is a massive cut and not to mention in extremely poor taste. Do not forget, our union negotiators know what they are doing. They know what the pilot group feels is important because we let them know via surveys,P2P, and speaking directly with union members. Have a little patience and show some confidence in your reps.

It is still BS. Four years into this and everone is tired of this crap. Someone needs to act like an adult walk in and put an offer on the table they can live with. This is the equivilant to a week long debate at the car dealership. Someone needs to act like an adult and move this crap along...in my view, just like four years ago, it has shifted from the company to ALPA again dragging their heels. Give us something to vote on!

 

[gator_hater]

I AGREE

13.1% profit margins...$85MIL+ profits

Except for the fact that it was $42m for the last 9 months in 2005. That is also based on opperating profit not total profit. It still remains that our MEC is asking for HALF of that in pilot raises. Don't get me wrong, we ARE worth it and I'd like the $$ but that is not good business.

 

[Ganja60Heavy]

I don't know about you, but this Kool-Aid is "working" on me...I'm scared.

I'll take concessions...anything......just do it....show me where to sign.

I already told my 'Riddle buddies I'd be flying a '900 by October.....don't make me look stupid.

And I ordered "CRJ9-PLT" plates for my BMW 323i that my parents bought me when I passed the first set of exams.

And that chick in the bar....what's she gonna do when she finds out I'm a liar?

Help!

 

[jegermeister]

Liar, liar pants on fire! How can Charlie say that it's our fault, when it's really his fault. And for all you kids that don't want a better contract, reach down and act act like you have a pair......remember full pay to the last day!

I'm so tired of hearing hearing this crap. I heard it at ALG, now again. For those of you that believe it, wake up. And for those of you who still think we're in a position to strong arm management, ask our union brothers in the steel industry how well they did.

We did well in section 13, lets call it draw and move on. Otherwise we're F*cked.

For those of you that can't write an intelligent response, feel free to bring on the personal acts, it seems to be your only counter arguement.

PS Joe M. You've been right on, for a while now.

 

[ALCOHOLIC]

You just dont get it

Well, to be devils advocate......IF what Tutt says is true, ASA is going to fuc%ing suck a$$ to work at! Junior Captains will go back to FO, Senior FO's will NEVER upgrade, and Junior FO's will be furloughed! Don't forget, the ATR's will be gone next year, and 13 or more 700's and one base closure! Not what I signed up for, thats for sure. I'm not sure why we think they won't do this. Calling their bluff is walking on really thin ice! Why won't they give the 900's to Skywest??? THEY FLY THEM FOR 50 SEAT RATES!!!!!! I'm not saying we should, at ASA.....but, ALPA is definitely asking for too much! Read the open sections email. We need to prioritize. If keeping 700 pay is priority number 1, then lets drop rigs and a funded retirement. Lets drop the 50 seater increases a bit. If rigs is the #1 issue, then lets come down on 70 seat pay. I'm all about getting whats fair, and I aint no management kool-aid drinker, however, I just don't see us being almost 25% higher in pay on the 700 than industry average, which is about what ALPA is asking for, and keeping those planes. If you think we will, you don't understand todays Regional Lift Provider environment! Who decided this? I was never 'polled' on what I think 700 pay should be. Lets get back in there, and compromise and come to an agreement so we dont go the way of ACA/Indy Air.

Think about it from a managers point of view. One of the last things they are worried about is pilot pay. They are not going to win or lose a bid because a pilot makes $5 more per hour. The reason they come after the pilots so much is because they know pilots will cave. There is no easier place to get money from then the pilots.

 

[Texx]

lets hurry up an strike so we can destroy this company so I can go look for a job without a selfish pilotgroup.

That's the problem with you. It's all about you. Selfish, self centered and I would bet that you're just a blast to live with.

 

[Texx]

Hey ASA Alpa snobs let me ask you a question.
Is a 13% pay increase on 30 airplanes worth 300 of your fellow pilots jobs?

If you have such a problem with this why don't you go into the crew lounge in ATL and have an face to face talk with all the pilots.

I didn't think you would. No guts no glory Junior.

 

[jegermeister]

Think about it from a managers point of view. One of the last things they are worried about is pilot pay. They are not going to win or lose a bid because a pilot makes $5 more per hour. The reason they come after the pilots so much is because they know pilots will cave. There is no easier place to get money from then the pilots.

J.A. didn't buy an airline. He bought airplanes, gates, and a service agreement with Delta. Don't fool yourself, if we're 1 cent more to operate, then the transfer of assets will continue. Some call it whip sawing, he sees it as good business.

We can "hold the line" and get mowed down, but as for me I've been there, done that, and certainly don't need another t-shirt.

 

[Morning Wood]

"If only all of your pilots had your stance. Thank You."

Do you think if every SkyWest pilot had voted "No" that the
planes wouldn't have come anyway? You would be
working at the same pay rates, regardless of which
way the vote went.

 

[Texx]

I hate the union and SkyWest managment could feel good knowing that I would vote no on any drive for alpa.

That is the reason we put the agency shop clause in the last agreement. JUST FOR YOU!

 

[Texx]

None of the ALPAites have answered my question, so I will state it again.

Why can't we put it up to a vote?

We can A strike vote.

 

[79%N1]

OK. First off, I don't need to villified for saying my opinion on what Tutt's letter may mean. I am solidly behind my MEC, and am a yes on strike vote. I am, however, of the opinion that ALPA is asking for too much, and in light of that, Atkin etc is forced to give the 900's to Skywest pilots, along with our SLC base. Was this going to happen all along? I don't know. But, it still sucks for us at ASA, while Skywest gets yet another windfall. As just another side to the arguement, it is important to know that many of us will be taking a hugh paycut now, as many ATL 700 fo's will be now pushed back to the 200 - thus a paycut. Many 700 Captains will now be 200 Captains, and some 200 Captains are going back to fo. That is the fact of what will happen now, because I believe IMHO that we are going to lose the airplanes and not get the 900's. So be it. I will be walking along side the rest of you, as my resolve is stregthened even further. I just am not striking over 700 pay. There are other issues for me. Those costs (pilot only) are not in line with the rest of the industry, and we want to move them ahead further, almost 25% more than average. I don't think that is realistic or sustainable today. Again, my opinion. That said, I don't think it matters what we do. JA has his plan to get ASA's SLC base and maybe all of our 700's anyway. Maybe we are just being used. Just a whipsaw pawn. The only difference is I am wondering, or speculating what will happen to us at ASA if JA, BL and CT are telling us facts. And I don't have to like it. I think it is just silly to act tough and say 'who cares if they take the planes.' Some people do care, and I was showing what those reasons may be. The funny thing is, things will be a lot worse if they shrink us than if we compromise a little on 700 pay. Just admit that a little while you run around with your chests puffed out screaming 'burn this place down!'

 

[Texx]

I care, because......
A. If they take the SLC 700's and dont replace them, my 5-6 year upgrade turns into a 8-10 year upgrade.
B. When the SLC 700's leave, I will be bumped back to the 50 seater.....thus giving me the same dam# paycut the company is proposing I take anyway!!!!

And all you Junior 700 Captains will take a much bigger paycut when you get displaced to the 50 seater.
And you Junior 50 Captains will take a much bigger paycut when you go back to the freakin right seat!!! Enjoy the whiz wheel and weight and balance forms. See ya on the walk around. When will you guys see, we are way above those we are competing with on these 700's. Why is it a bluff of JA to say they will take them away? Then everyone gets a big paycut!

Another one "it's all about me."

Here is your next job.
Web Site: http://www.pas-aviation.aero

CRJ Capts. in India!

 

[Texx]

Mesaba is looking that way so is comair.

CMR gave 2 rounds of cuts and they didn't see any new airframes did they Junior.

 

[n6604f]

One very important fact abut KING TUTT every one is forgetting to talk about.....HE DID THE SAME THING AT DELTA.....He negotiated as a pilot on the Behalf of the company and got the company it's concessionary contract!

That is the whole reason why he is here! To break us!

We are approaching a record for the longest open negotiations in history. Maybe we need to write our Senator and Congressmen (forget McKinney) to take a hard look at the RLA.....How many people in any other industries do you know that are forced to work without a contract? I know no CEO or pro sports player works with out a contract....Why should we.....So the company can continue to screw the employees for 4 years while the company has no motivation to come to an agreement while they laugh all the way to the bank.

It is not all about pay either......The SCOPE as currently written gives ASA pilots no job security at all. Vote yes for a strike becuase of scope and pay.

 

[Texx]

All the junior guys care about is a darn upgrade and to drink the COOL AID. !! Get a life and go work for SKW if you dont want to try to keep /raise the bar!!

The junior guys need to read up on the contract.

24.G.6.d. How much TT time do you think you need to upgrade?

 

[Snapperhead]

They (Brian L. and Charlie T.) can say what ever they want; but, the truth is we haven't had a pay raise in years, and we still don't have a new contract. I will not vote on a TA that is concessionary when we are making money hand over fist. If we were in bankruptcy and losing millions per quarter, than perhaps a paycut would be in order to keep flying. But when the opposite is true...hell no to givebacks!

 

[Bizjet]

OK. First off, I don't need to villified for saying my opinion on what Tutt's letter may mean. I am solidly behind my MEC, and am a yes on strike vote. I am, however, of the opinion that ALPA is asking for too much, and in light of that, Atkin etc is forced to give the 900's to Skywest pilots, along with our SLC base. Was this going to happen all along? I don't know. But, it still sucks for us at ASA, while Skywest gets yet another windfall. As just another side to the arguement, it is important to know that many of us will be taking a hugh paycut now, as many ATL 700 fo's will be now pushed back to the 200 - thus a paycut. Many 700 Captains will now be 200 Captains, and some 200 Captains are going back to fo. That is the fact of what will happen now, because I believe IMHO that we are going to lose the airplanes and not get the 900's. So be it. I will be walking along side the rest of you, as my resolve is stregthened even further. I just am not striking over 700 pay. There are other issues for me. Those costs (pilot only) are not in line with the rest of the industry, and we want to move them ahead further, almost 25% more than average. I don't think that is realistic or sustainable today. Again, my opinion. That said, I don't think it matters what we do. JA has his plan to get ASA's SLC base and maybe all of our 700's anyway. Maybe we are just being used. Just a whipsaw pawn. The only difference is I am wondering, or speculating what will happen to us at ASA if JA, BL and CT are telling us facts. And I don't have to like it. I think it is just silly to act tough and say 'who cares if they take the planes.' Some people do care, and I was showing what those reasons may be. The funny thing is, things will be a lot worse if they shrink us than if we compromise a little on 700 pay. Just admit that a little while you run around with your chests puffed out screaming 'burn this place down!'

Some time you have to stand tall and not cower in the corner. This is one of those times.

 

[atlcrjdriver]

The fact of the matter is, to get this done both sides need to come to the table in good faith. With a proposal like the one they gave on 5/25 was not in good faith as far as wages go. I realize that in negotiations one side starts high and the other low to meet in the middle, but that was through the roof and the mediator saw that. To the CNC, stop playing and get it done.
Some say, well we have come down on our proposal. Where is it posted? Let the rank and file know what is going on. Even on the asa mec web site, nothing. Guys asking what is the latest on the vote-reply try and find a P2P guy and ask him. Why the new double secret intel?

Things that make you go - hmmmm

 

[Peter Sashell]

So if the 900's were to go to asa, do you have a pay rate for it ?

 

[Bizjet]

Liar, liar pants on fire! How can Charlie say that it's our fault, when it's really his fault. And for all you kids that don't want a better contract, reach down and act act like you have a pair......remember full pay to the last day!

I'm so tired of hearing hearing this crap. I heard it at ALG, now again. For those of you that believe it, wake up. And for those of you who still think we're in a position to strong arm management, ask our union brothers in the steel industry how well they did.

We did well in section 13, lets call it draw and move on. Otherwise we're F*cked.

For those of you that can't write an intelligent response, feel free to bring on the personal acts, it seems to be your only counter arguement.

PS Joe M. You've been right on, for a while now.

Looks like you were in the military. Did you not tell them you were a "Conscientious Objector" when you enlisted? How many white flags do you carry in your military flight bag?

 

[AV8700]

So if the 900's were to go to asa, do you have a pay rate for it ?

No, that would have to be worked out also.

 

[atlcrjdriver]

The rates on the table are 60-76 seats Turbo Jet rate. Thus, the new CR7 rate would also cover the 76 seat config CR9

 

[jegermeister]

Looks like you were in the military. Did you not tell them you were a "Conscientious Objector" when you enlisted? How many white flags do you carry in your military flight bag?

If you ever served your country, then you could talk to me. Otherwise lets talk about something you know about.

 

[cushman_500]

all of you idiots that think we get paid too much to fly to cr7, where do you think we got those payrates years ago. do you think the union and the company agreed that the 70 should pay so much more than every other airline. no they made the pay rates in line with every other 70 seat operator. it just happens that all of them (except horizon) have taken pay cuts or, in the case of mesa or chq, just have no juevos to get paid what they are worth. if you think or 70 seat pay should be cut then go jump off the bridge that everyone else is jumping off

 

[atrdriver]

However, I am afraid it IS possible that Tutt's letter has a ring of truth to it. In the current environment Delta DOES require us to be within a certain cost stucture or someone else gets the flying.

Well, we are the MOST profitable regional in the US. Our profit margin beat the others by over 3%. That tells me that overall costs are indeed competitive, and that we don't need to take a paycut to increase that margin. If they really believe that we are not competitive they can take that extra 3% margin and give it back to DAL as a rebate. That would really make us competitive.

 

[LAMESAUCE]

if you think or 70 seat pay should be cut then go jump off the bridge that everyone else is jumping off

i'll jump, if my MEC tells me to (new bag sticker idea).