ASA "town hall" prediction

[COOPERVANE]

I think this is going to be the gist for our "town hall" meetings

MGMT:

"We have entered a very challenging time for the regional industry. Delta has cut our compensation, fuel is reaching all time highs, we are flying airplanes that will be beer cans in a year or so, and federal rest regulations are going to tie our hands flexibility wise.

As you all know, we purchased EXJET with the hope of realizing synergies in the combination of the company. That WILL save us some money. However, we both have a senior pilot group and that makes us expensive.

To be able to compete effectively we are going to have to pull together in a concerted effort to align ourselves to certain realities. The regional world has changed and I need the employees of ASA to understand the old ways will not work anymore. Therefore we are here today to paint you a picture of our airline from here going forward.

We will need to trim our pilot pay 10-15% to remain competitive and position ourselves for any future growth. While this may be painful in the short term, it will better align us with the DCI average. It will allow us to remain within a reasonable cost structure while maintaining the high standard of Living out flight crews have enjoyed for the last thirty years. The future of a regional who is lean and competative is bright. Let's make sure we are that regional. [/B][/I]"


ME:
"I think I speak for all here when I say pay, time off and QOL is relatively unimportant. What I need to know is

How does this affect the mini indy?"

 

[crj567]

I think this is going to be the gist for our "town hall" meetings

MGMT:

"We have entered a very challenging time for the regional industry. Delta has cut our compensation, fuel is reaching all time highs, we are flying airplanes that will be beer cans in a year or so, and federal rest regulations are going to tie our hands flexibility wise.

As you all know, we purchased EXJET with the hope of realizing synergies in the combination of the company. That WILL save us some money. However, we both have a senior pilot group and that makes us expensive.

To be able to compete effectively we are going to have to pull together in a concerted effort to align ourselves to certain realities. The regional world has changed and I need the employees of ASA to understand the old ways will not work anymore. Therefore we are here today to paint you a picture of our airline from here going forward.

We will need to trim our pilot pay 10-15% to remain competitive and position ourselves for any future growth. While this may be painful in the short term, it will better align us with the DCI average. It will allow us to remain within a reasonable cost structure while maintaining the high standard of Living out flight crews have enjoyed for the last thirty years. The future of a regional who is lean and competative is bright. Let's make sure we are that regional. [/B][/I]"


ME:
"I think I speak for all here when I say pay, time off and QOL is relatively unimportant. What I need to know is

How does this affect the mini indy?"

In wouldn't be a damn bit surprised... Maybe they will bump our Performance Plus up by $28 per quarter to compensate. I am really afraid something is going to get "enhanced" again!

-These damn meetings are never good.

 

[twott driver]

You can "enhance' something to the point where it is no longer worth doing. That point is not far off.

 

[blesko]

I think this is going to be the gist for our "town hall" meetings

MGMT:

"We have entered a very challenging time for the regional industry. Delta has cut our compensation, fuel is reaching all time highs, we are flying airplanes that will be beer cans in a year or so, and federal rest regulations are going to tie our hands flexibility wise.

As you all know, we purchased EXJET with the hope of realizing synergies in the combination of the company. That WILL save us some money. However, we both have a senior pilot group and that makes us expensive.

To be able to compete effectively we are going to have to pull together in a concerted effort to align ourselves to certain realities. The regional world has changed and I need the employees of ASA to understand the old ways will not work anymore. Therefore we are here today to paint you a picture of our airline from here going forward.

We will need to trim our pilot pay 10-15% to remain competitive and position ourselves for any future growth. While this may be painful in the short term, it will better align us with the DCI average. It will allow us to remain within a reasonable cost structure while maintaining the high standard of Living out flight crews have enjoyed for the last thirty years. The future of a regional who is lean and competative is bright. Let's make sure we are that regional. [/B][/I]"


ME:
"I think I speak for all here when I say pay, time off and QOL is relatively unimportant. What I need to know is

How does this affect the mini indy?"

Brilliant sir, brilliant. Let me find out who you are and beers for the trip are on me!!!

 

[sunlitpath]

Pilot compensation is not negotiable. Let's keep this fact clearly in view. Get ready for ticket price increases. I smile when the price goes up.

 

[Max Q]

How quickly will we all forget the bad when the company improves pairing construction for a single month and fires off an "uh oh spaghetti o's... we're so sorry" letter? Have we sent management the wrong message?

 

[Medeco]

I have no doubt they will do their very best to lower expectations to the entire company, and most of the cheerleaders will buy it. Just go read the comments in regard to PP checks.

"GEEZ People, at least we got something"

Top managment is studying the "talking points" as I type.

 

[Freebrd]

Dey want to save money git rid of all the extra useless mgt types, combine scheduling to handle all three airlines, yes all three, and then give zee pelots a raise, yea that be the ticket,copy dat

NO PAY CUTS for this Pilot group

 

[JoeMerchant]

I have no doubt they will do their very best to lower expectations to the entire company, and most of the cheerleaders will buy it. Just go read the comments in regard to PP checks.

"GEEZ People, at least we got something"

Top managment is studying the "talking points" as I type.

Says one of ALPA's resident cheerleaders...Koolaid comes in two flavors, and you prefer the ALPA flavor. When ALPA figures out a way to stop multiple groups competing for flying and when ALPA figures out a way to transfer longevity across company lines, I will listen to the Koolaid you are peddling. Until then, it is simply more angry rhetoric from the other cheerleading section...

 

[777forever]

Says one of ALPA's resident cheerleaders...Koolaid comes in two flavors, and you prefer the ALPA flavor. When ALPA figures out a way to stop multiple groups competing for flying and when ALPA figures out a way to transfer longevity across company lines, I will listen to the Koolaid you are peddling. Until then, it is simply more angry rhetoric from the other cheerleading section...

Well said!

 

[Baronman]

Says one of ALPA's resident cheerleaders...Koolaid comes in two flavors, and you prefer the ALPA flavor. When ALPA figures out a way to stop multiple groups competing for flying and when ALPA figures out a way to transfer longevity across company lines, I will listen to the Koolaid you are peddling. Until then, it is simply more angry rhetoric from the other cheerleading section...

Call it what you will. I support the side that looks to PRESERVE or INCREASE our compensation. Not kowtow to management's threats that we could lose future flying.

Remember, their job is to pay you as little as possible while working you as much as possible. It's your own fault if you blindly accept what they say.

Furthermore, Pinnacle/Mesaba which would be one of ASA's primary regional competitors just hashed out a new more costly contract. The disparity in costs just narrowed.

 

[JumpersAway]

Where are pilot pay cuts coming in here? A town hall meeting was announced, and we are already jumping the gun- just wait to see what is said before giving yourselves a bunch of uncecessary worry and a coronary.

My bet is that the company is stepping up to the plate to discuss the absurdly poor pairing construction and scheduling practices that have come up lately. At least they have the cahones to step into the lions den- nobody is happy with the pairings. Frankly, I look for March to be a "vacation" month for everyone that holds a line. Hey, why not? Call in sick and only lose 15 hrs. from your sick bank?????? Reserves will get pounded on this month, and every pilot with some sense will be enjoying a nice week and a half stretch of time off.

I'm hoping the company takes one in the kisser this month. Not because I want them to fail. But because I want them to learn a healthy lesson for the upcoming summer travel season. I'm not looking for the moon here, but I am looking for reason and accountability. I'm also looking for respectable compensation and reasonable compensation- and yes, that means taking into account the ability to compete. Don't care to discuss why, or whose fault it is, but it's the cold hard truth and a component in this part of the industry. I'd rather pace a healthy run and end the race at the head of the pack, than sprint the first hundred yards only to fall on my face. However, that said, I'd also like to get paid what I deserve given the contribution I make to this company and it's profit margin. If times are tough financially, then I expect compensation in QOL at the least.

Anyway- I'm waiting to see what they come to the table with before getting worked up. No sense in getting fired up over something that hasn't even been proposed yet. Nobody's said anything about pay cuts. Besides, does anyone remember Brad Hold openly admitting that we have cost issues, and that it DIDN'T involve the pilots. Issues such as maintenance and management costs are the problem, and management knows this. Relax everyone, and let them speak before getting fired up....

 

[Plainsman]

I saw a management guy on the bus the other day. He was being a total jerk to a mechanic who was in street clothes, the dude wanted to know if he was going to work or nonreving someplace, the mechanic was comming into work. The guy (management) was completely bald headed and really obnoxious. Anyplace else he would be sporting a black eye complements of that mechanic. Anyone know a manger that fits that description? If he is in managment, poor, poor choice.

 

[johnpeace]

Did you stand up for the mechanic and call the guy out on his unprofessionalism or just sit there like a sheep?

 

[blesko]

Where are pilot pay cuts coming in here? A town hall meeting was announced, and we are already jumping the gun- just wait to see what is said before giving yourselves a bunch of uncecessary worry and a coronary.

My bet is that the company is stepping up to the plate to discuss the absurdly poor pairing construction and scheduling practices that have come up lately. At least they have the cahones to step into the lions den- nobody is happy with the pairings. Frankly, I look for March to be a "vacation" month for everyone that holds a line. Hey, why not? Call in sick and only lose 15 hrs. from your sick bank?????? Reserves will get pounded on this month, and every pilot with some sense will be enjoying a nice week and a half stretch of time off.

I'm hoping the company takes one in the kisser this month. Not because I want them to fail. But because I want them to learn a healthy lesson for the upcoming summer travel season. I'm not looking for the moon here, but I am looking for reason and accountability. I'm also looking for respectable compensation and reasonable compensation- and yes, that means taking into account the ability to compete. Don't care to discuss why, or whose fault it is, but it's the cold hard truth and a component in this part of the industry. I'd rather pace a healthy run and end the race at the head of the pack, than sprint the first hundred yards only to fall on my face. However, that said, I'd also like to get paid what I deserve given the contribution I make to this company and it's profit margin. If times are tough financially, then I expect compensation in QOL at the least.

Anyway- I'm waiting to see what they come to the table with before getting worked up. No sense in getting fired up over something that hasn't even been proposed yet. Nobody's said anything about pay cuts. Besides, does anyone remember Brad Hold openly admitting that we have cost issues, and that it DIDN'T involve the pilots. Issues such as maintenance and management costs are the problem, and management knows this. Relax everyone, and let them speak before getting fired up....

C'mon man....you've been here long enough, you know what's up. They put out e-mails about how its their fault staffing sucks, and it will be fixed, and its still not. The list goes on. They "own up" to making mistakes right up to the point where they do NOTHING to fix it. I'd like to see a viable operation as much as the next guy, but nothing good ever comes from a town hall.

 

[Redan]

Originally Posted by JoeMerchant
Says one of ALPA's resident cheerleaders...Koolaid comes in two flavors, and you prefer the ALPA flavor. When ALPA figures out a way to stop multiple groups competing for flying and when ALPA figures out a way to transfer longevity across company lines, I will listen to the Koolaid you are peddling. Until then, it is simply more angry rhetoric from the other cheerleading section...

Well said!

Yet more agenda based commentary from our resident sage JoeMerchant (Jumpin' Joe). Followed by kudos from his best (possibly only) cheerleader 777forever (Little Joe). Yes indeed gentlemen, well said!

 

[Redan]

Where are pilot pay cuts coming in here? A town hall meeting was announced, and we are already jumping the gun- just wait to see what is said before giving yourselves a bunch of uncecessary worry and a coronary.

My bet is that the company is stepping up to the plate to discuss the absurdly poor pairing construction and scheduling practices that have come up lately. At least they have the cahones to step into the lions den- nobody is happy with the pairings. Frankly, I look for March to be a "vacation" month for everyone that holds a line. Hey, why not? Call in sick and only lose 15 hrs. from your sick bank?????? Reserves will get pounded on this month, and every pilot with some sense will be enjoying a nice week and a half stretch of time off.

I'm hoping the company takes one in the kisser this month. Not because I want them to fail. But because I want them to learn a healthy lesson for the upcoming summer travel season. I'm not looking for the moon here, but I am looking for reason and accountability. I'm also looking for respectable compensation and reasonable compensation- and yes, that means taking into account the ability to compete. Don't care to discuss why, or whose fault it is, but it's the cold hard truth and a component in this part of the industry. I'd rather pace a healthy run and end the race at the head of the pack, than sprint the first hundred yards only to fall on my face. However, that said, I'd also like to get paid what I deserve given the contribution I make to this company and it's profit margin. If times are tough financially, then I expect compensation in QOL at the least.

Anyway- I'm waiting to see what they come to the table with before getting worked up. No sense in getting fired up over something that hasn't even been proposed yet. Nobody's said anything about pay cuts. Besides, does anyone remember Brad Hold openly admitting that we have cost issues, and that it DIDN'T involve the pilots. Issues such as maintenance and management costs are the problem, and management knows this. Relax everyone, and let them speak before getting fired up....

While I would tend to agree in spirit with what you say, historically there isn't much basis for giving them a chance. I don't know about you sir, but even as a junior captain I've been here plenty long enough to know better. Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me. Well how about fooling me thrice, four, five, six times ad infinitum? Isn't it time for us to recognize the disingenuous tactics of management for what they are? Isn't it time for us to realize they are soft selling us while playing hard ball?

 

[COOPERVANE]

Well I don't necessarily think it will be CUTS per se. But I do think it will be about the "new realities of regional feed", and how it's gonna be for the forseeable future. It's not gonna just be about pairings, since they are doing it company wide.

I think its gonna be the standard "compliment sandwich". I think it's gonna be a progress report about how the integration is going (how exciting), then about how we are going to have to "get used to new realities", followed by this brilliant ray of light shining brightly into the future.

Kind of like a sheite sandwich that we're all gonna have to take a bite of

 

[COOPERVANE]

Anybody else notice that EVERY OTHER division is first before the ATL crew room.

Honeing presentation skills prior to interacting with pissed off pilots?

 

[johnpeace]

Successful professionals prepare for meetings and go in with an agenda.

I encourage everyone to write down their questions, with notes of specific failures of the ASA way of doing crew utilization and take this opportunity to register not only your anger...but your recognition of crew utilization's failure and ineptitude.

They keep saying we're 'adequately staffed' according to the crews:airframes ratio metric...but need to see that that ratio only works with competence and aptitude handling crew utilization.

 

[Redan]

Successful professionals prepare for meetings and go in with an agenda.

I encourage everyone to write down their questions, with notes of specific failures of the ASA way of doing crew utilization and take this opportunity to register not only your anger...but your recognition of crew utilization's failure and ineptitude.

They keep saying we're 'adequately staffed' according to the crews:airframes ratio metric...but need to see that that ratio only works with competence and aptitude handling crew utilization.

Now this post does deserve a "well said."

 

[johnpeace]

I'm making my notes and am planning to make as many comments and questions as I'm allowed to.

I can't escape how freaking great it would be if every single question they took nailed JP to the floor and just enumerated the many failures of that department.

 

[JumpersAway]

I think we are staffed well............we just aren't UTILIZED well. If someone would have had the common sense to work crap pairings into productive 3 days, with lots of time off (at home) for everyone to keep line values low, the mood would be much different. It's one thing to have low credit lines, but a completely different animal when they are low credit, and lack time off. Frankly, that's what I'm pissed about. If you keep the line values low, fine..............just give me some bloody time off with it!

 

[JumpersAway]

Blesko- plenty of good things have come from other town meetings prior to this one.....

-Introduction of the 900's
-Procurement of ExpressJet (eventually will pay off for the better)
-Dulles base which saved the hides of 15 airframes slated for retirement
-More 700's

Granted, management has lost their way- we once marched step in step to make this a better place, resulting in a competitive airline. They're parting paths with us and it's not mutually beneficial. I can think of three people in management that are immediately responsible for this, and my hope is that they are replaced with competant leadership with some sense.......especially as it pertains to scheduling.

 

[johnpeace]

If someone would have had the common sense to work crap pairings into productive 3 days, with lots of time off (at home) for everyone to keep line values low, the mood would be much different. It's one thing to have low credit lines, but a completely different animal when they are low credit, and lack time off.

This is directly due to their incompetence. They pretended to lower reserve coverage by awarding more lines...but with 20-30 hr sits in your 4 day...you're basically a ready reserve. They're building themselves flexibility and additional effective reserve coverage, at the expense of your schedule....while claiming a victory in getting pilots off reserve.

 

[COOPERVANE]

That's exactly what I said in a different post. They have effectively made everybody an IROP reserve pilot ready to reshedule to cover regular reserves when they are mismanaged and wiped out.

Lineholders just don't know it yet, they are basking in the glow of their "sweet" schedules and saying "poor reserve suckers"

 

[Redan]

I think we are staffed well............we just aren't UTILIZED well. If someone would have had the common sense to work crap pairings into productive 3 days, with lots of time off (at home) for everyone to keep line values low, the mood would be much different. It's one thing to have low credit lines, but a completely different animal when they are low credit, and lack time off. Frankly, that's what I'm pissed about. If you keep the line values low, fine..............just give me some bloody time off with it!

I tend to agree again. However, some additional points if I may:

One of the shining examples of the shortcomings of US business in general, and ASA in particular is the aforementioned "metrics." Or could be called the "MBA syndrome." Of late, business schools have basically been teaching bean counting techniques focusing on bottom line costs irregardless of their effects on other aspects of the business. So we have these MBA rocket scientists who are only concerned with their own "metrics" and not concerned with their effects on other "metrics" in the operation. Consequently, we've seen about the worst case of corporate myopia possibly in history. While this isn't an entirely new phenomenon, it goes a long way to explaining the many corporate decisions that seem to defy logic and common sense. Typically the bewildered employees suffer the consequences while the managers enjoy their bonuses up in the glass tower. More astute management teams (i.e. Southwest) recognize the detrimental effects of this bean counting mentality on their businesses and that in actuality it probably costs more in the end.

When dealing with managers suffering from this type myopia, there is probably little chance of convincing them their business models are actually less cost efficient to their operation in ways not defined by "metrics." Typically, they are only interested in the opinions of those with MBA degrees on the wall, certainly not those of stupid pilots. Therefore, this is why as employees under collective bargaining, we have to help them along. For example, we must insist on much more detailed definitions of pairing construction, crew utilization, QOL issues, minimum staffing, etc. Company will immediately claim it's too costly. However the needed changes will only create more efficiency and ultimately lead to lower costs and a vastly improved working relationship. Additionally, this could help management see things in a different perspective and help them break out of their comfort zone. But we will have to grow backbones and be willing to step out of our comfort zones also. The only way to do this is through our contracts with company. At this very moment, we have a golden opportunity to fix many of these issues through the JCBA currently being negotiated. Folks, if we cannot muster the resolve to get it right this time, we will be well and truly farked.

 

[AV8700]

Staffing and schedules will improve if we just agree to dual qual

 

[Max Q]

Lineholders just don't know it yet, they are basking in the glow of their "sweet" schedules and saying "poor reserve suckers"

What makes you say this?

 

[COOPERVANE]

What makes you say this?

Based on the reaction of some junior guys holding a line for the first time. I really can't blame them though. Life is sweet compared to the hell that reserve has been the past year

I don't really think the senior guys think the schedules are "sweet" but I don't think they give a rats ass about guys on reserve.

BTW I'm not on reserve anymore either. I just feel they should be represented and treated fairly.