ASA "town hall" prediction

[Redan]

Originally Posted by JoeMerchant
Says one of ALPA's resident cheerleaders...Koolaid comes in two flavors, and you prefer the ALPA flavor. When ALPA figures out a way to stop multiple groups competing for flying and when ALPA figures out a way to transfer longevity across company lines, I will listen to the Koolaid you are peddling. Until then, it is simply more angry rhetoric from the other cheerleading section...

Well said!

Yet more agenda based commentary from our resident sage JoeMerchant (Jumpin' Joe). Followed by kudos from his best (possibly only) cheerleader 777forever (Little Joe). Yes indeed gentlemen, well said!

 

[Redan]

Where are pilot pay cuts coming in here? A town hall meeting was announced, and we are already jumping the gun- just wait to see what is said before giving yourselves a bunch of uncecessary worry and a coronary.

My bet is that the company is stepping up to the plate to discuss the absurdly poor pairing construction and scheduling practices that have come up lately. At least they have the cahones to step into the lions den- nobody is happy with the pairings. Frankly, I look for March to be a "vacation" month for everyone that holds a line. Hey, why not? Call in sick and only lose 15 hrs. from your sick bank?????? Reserves will get pounded on this month, and every pilot with some sense will be enjoying a nice week and a half stretch of time off.

I'm hoping the company takes one in the kisser this month. Not because I want them to fail. But because I want them to learn a healthy lesson for the upcoming summer travel season. I'm not looking for the moon here, but I am looking for reason and accountability. I'm also looking for respectable compensation and reasonable compensation- and yes, that means taking into account the ability to compete. Don't care to discuss why, or whose fault it is, but it's the cold hard truth and a component in this part of the industry. I'd rather pace a healthy run and end the race at the head of the pack, than sprint the first hundred yards only to fall on my face. However, that said, I'd also like to get paid what I deserve given the contribution I make to this company and it's profit margin. If times are tough financially, then I expect compensation in QOL at the least.

Anyway- I'm waiting to see what they come to the table with before getting worked up. No sense in getting fired up over something that hasn't even been proposed yet. Nobody's said anything about pay cuts. Besides, does anyone remember Brad Hold openly admitting that we have cost issues, and that it DIDN'T involve the pilots. Issues such as maintenance and management costs are the problem, and management knows this. Relax everyone, and let them speak before getting fired up....

While I would tend to agree in spirit with what you say, historically there isn't much basis for giving them a chance. I don't know about you sir, but even as a junior captain I've been here plenty long enough to know better. Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me. Well how about fooling me thrice, four, five, six times ad infinitum? Isn't it time for us to recognize the disingenuous tactics of management for what they are? Isn't it time for us to realize they are soft selling us while playing hard ball?

 

[COOPERVANE]

Well I don't necessarily think it will be CUTS per se. But I do think it will be about the "new realities of regional feed", and how it's gonna be for the forseeable future. It's not gonna just be about pairings, since they are doing it company wide.

I think its gonna be the standard "compliment sandwich". I think it's gonna be a progress report about how the integration is going (how exciting), then about how we are going to have to "get used to new realities", followed by this brilliant ray of light shining brightly into the future.

Kind of like a sheite sandwich that we're all gonna have to take a bite of

 

[COOPERVANE]

Anybody else notice that EVERY OTHER division is first before the ATL crew room.

Honeing presentation skills prior to interacting with pissed off pilots?

 

[johnpeace]

Successful professionals prepare for meetings and go in with an agenda.

I encourage everyone to write down their questions, with notes of specific failures of the ASA way of doing crew utilization and take this opportunity to register not only your anger...but your recognition of crew utilization's failure and ineptitude.

They keep saying we're 'adequately staffed' according to the crews:airframes ratio metric...but need to see that that ratio only works with competence and aptitude handling crew utilization.

 

[Redan]

Successful professionals prepare for meetings and go in with an agenda.

I encourage everyone to write down their questions, with notes of specific failures of the ASA way of doing crew utilization and take this opportunity to register not only your anger...but your recognition of crew utilization's failure and ineptitude.

They keep saying we're 'adequately staffed' according to the crews:airframes ratio metric...but need to see that that ratio only works with competence and aptitude handling crew utilization.

Now this post does deserve a "well said."

 

[johnpeace]

I'm making my notes and am planning to make as many comments and questions as I'm allowed to.

I can't escape how freaking great it would be if every single question they took nailed JP to the floor and just enumerated the many failures of that department.

 

[JumpersAway]

I think we are staffed well............we just aren't UTILIZED well. If someone would have had the common sense to work crap pairings into productive 3 days, with lots of time off (at home) for everyone to keep line values low, the mood would be much different. It's one thing to have low credit lines, but a completely different animal when they are low credit, and lack time off. Frankly, that's what I'm pissed about. If you keep the line values low, fine..............just give me some bloody time off with it!

 

[JumpersAway]

Blesko- plenty of good things have come from other town meetings prior to this one.....

-Introduction of the 900's
-Procurement of ExpressJet (eventually will pay off for the better)
-Dulles base which saved the hides of 15 airframes slated for retirement
-More 700's

Granted, management has lost their way- we once marched step in step to make this a better place, resulting in a competitive airline. They're parting paths with us and it's not mutually beneficial. I can think of three people in management that are immediately responsible for this, and my hope is that they are replaced with competant leadership with some sense.......especially as it pertains to scheduling.

 

[johnpeace]

If someone would have had the common sense to work crap pairings into productive 3 days, with lots of time off (at home) for everyone to keep line values low, the mood would be much different. It's one thing to have low credit lines, but a completely different animal when they are low credit, and lack time off.

This is directly due to their incompetence. They pretended to lower reserve coverage by awarding more lines...but with 20-30 hr sits in your 4 day...you're basically a ready reserve. They're building themselves flexibility and additional effective reserve coverage, at the expense of your schedule....while claiming a victory in getting pilots off reserve.

 

[COOPERVANE]

That's exactly what I said in a different post. They have effectively made everybody an IROP reserve pilot ready to reshedule to cover regular reserves when they are mismanaged and wiped out.

Lineholders just don't know it yet, they are basking in the glow of their "sweet" schedules and saying "poor reserve suckers"

 

[Redan]

I think we are staffed well............we just aren't UTILIZED well. If someone would have had the common sense to work crap pairings into productive 3 days, with lots of time off (at home) for everyone to keep line values low, the mood would be much different. It's one thing to have low credit lines, but a completely different animal when they are low credit, and lack time off. Frankly, that's what I'm pissed about. If you keep the line values low, fine..............just give me some bloody time off with it!

I tend to agree again. However, some additional points if I may:

One of the shining examples of the shortcomings of US business in general, and ASA in particular is the aforementioned "metrics." Or could be called the "MBA syndrome." Of late, business schools have basically been teaching bean counting techniques focusing on bottom line costs irregardless of their effects on other aspects of the business. So we have these MBA rocket scientists who are only concerned with their own "metrics" and not concerned with their effects on other "metrics" in the operation. Consequently, we've seen about the worst case of corporate myopia possibly in history. While this isn't an entirely new phenomenon, it goes a long way to explaining the many corporate decisions that seem to defy logic and common sense. Typically the bewildered employees suffer the consequences while the managers enjoy their bonuses up in the glass tower. More astute management teams (i.e. Southwest) recognize the detrimental effects of this bean counting mentality on their businesses and that in actuality it probably costs more in the end.

When dealing with managers suffering from this type myopia, there is probably little chance of convincing them their business models are actually less cost efficient to their operation in ways not defined by "metrics." Typically, they are only interested in the opinions of those with MBA degrees on the wall, certainly not those of stupid pilots. Therefore, this is why as employees under collective bargaining, we have to help them along. For example, we must insist on much more detailed definitions of pairing construction, crew utilization, QOL issues, minimum staffing, etc. Company will immediately claim it's too costly. However the needed changes will only create more efficiency and ultimately lead to lower costs and a vastly improved working relationship. Additionally, this could help management see things in a different perspective and help them break out of their comfort zone. But we will have to grow backbones and be willing to step out of our comfort zones also. The only way to do this is through our contracts with company. At this very moment, we have a golden opportunity to fix many of these issues through the JCBA currently being negotiated. Folks, if we cannot muster the resolve to get it right this time, we will be well and truly farked.

 

[AV8700]

Staffing and schedules will improve if we just agree to dual qual

 

[Max Q]

Lineholders just don't know it yet, they are basking in the glow of their "sweet" schedules and saying "poor reserve suckers"

What makes you say this?

 

[COOPERVANE]

What makes you say this?

Based on the reaction of some junior guys holding a line for the first time. I really can't blame them though. Life is sweet compared to the hell that reserve has been the past year

I don't really think the senior guys think the schedules are "sweet" but I don't think they give a rats ass about guys on reserve.

BTW I'm not on reserve anymore either. I just feel they should be represented and treated fairly.