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Are the Frontier pilots happy?

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Hey Bolo,
The sad part is that according to the Ghost's profile, he's not one of the guys that just bounced out of ERAU or UND to get some time and move on. RAH doesnt attract many career pilots so the high time ones usually are unhirable anywhere else or semi-retired and dont give a darn. All you can hope for is that the NMB is not quite as insane as Eischen, otherwise you may get to fly with the Ghost after seven years and find out if that "butt buddy" thing is a fetish of his or not. Hahaha!

Nice!!!!
 
Ghost,

In every reply so far, you resort to personal attacks. There can only be one reason--your arguments have no merit and, as a result, you must default to such pettiness. It's so sad I almost feel bad that I'm keeping this going because I know you will post another response that will further just how immature you are. But, just as with my 4 year-old, I know I shouldn't argue with a mind that's still developing, but sometimes I can't help myself. You say I don't know why your rates are what they are, but I'm pretty sure I do. You see, you have a contract, therefore the reason your rates suck is because THAT'S WHAT YOU NEGOTIATED! You could have made a stand with the E190, but you didnt. What that tells me is that your rates suck because you're willing to let them suck. You act as if RAH has just recently become such a bad place to work--as if it was a great place to work when you got hired there. I can assure you it wasn't. Face it, you knew that RAH sucked when you applied and got hired, but you still took the job. What does that say about you? You stated that "The whole [RAH] operation is a complete disgrace to the profession!" as if just stating it makes it okay to be a part of. In other words, you are the reason this profession is declining so quickly. I appreciate you being so candid, even if that wasn't your intent. I'm sorry you can't find anything interesting in any of the things I've written, although I think it's more the case that you REFUSE to see anything of interest so that you can keep justifying your career choices. That's what they are--choices. No one forced you to work at RAH, it was your choice. Now, I don't know the reason you made that choice and there might even be some justifiable reasons to have to make that choice, but in none of my posts did I write anything that isn't true. I didn't resort to personal attacks on you. I just laid out the facts, which were appearantlly too much for you to deal with. Is F9 perfect? No, far from it. If you were to give me a valid criticism, I'd own up to it and not try to make excuses. Bottom line is your job is essentially the same as mine, so why such a huge disparity when it comes to pay and work rules? Look in the mirror and you'll find your answer.
 
Ghost,

In every reply so far, you resort to personal attacks. There can only be one reason--your arguments have no merit and, as a result, you must default to such pettiness. It's so sad I almost feel bad that I'm keeping this going because I know you will post another response that will further just how immature you are. But, just as with my 4 year-old, I know I shouldn't argue with a mind that's still developing, but sometimes I can't help myself. You say I don't know why your rates are what they are, but I'm pretty sure I do. You see, you have a contract, therefore the reason your rates suck is because THAT'S WHAT YOU NEGOTIATED! You could have made a stand with the E190, but you didnt. What that tells me is that your rates suck because you're willing to let them suck. You act as if RAH has just recently become such a bad place to work--as if it was a great place to work when you got hired there. I can assure you it wasn't. Face it, you knew that RAH sucked when you applied and got hired, but you still took the job. What does that say about you? You stated that "The whole [RAH] operation is a complete disgrace to the profession!" as if just stating it makes it okay to be a part of. In other words, you are the reason this profession is declining so quickly. I appreciate you being so candid, even if that wasn't your intent. I'm sorry you can't find anything interesting in any of the things I've written, although I think it's more the case that you REFUSE to see anything of interest so that you can keep justifying your career choices. That's what they are--choices. No one forced you to work at RAH, it was your choice. Now, I don't know the reason you made that choice and there might even be some justifiable reasons to have to make that choice, but in none of my posts did I write anything that isn't true. I didn't resort to personal attacks on you. I just laid out the facts, which were appearantlly too much for you to deal with. Is F9 perfect? No, far from it. If you were to give me a valid criticism, I'd own up to it and not try to make excuses. Bottom line is your job is essentially the same as mine, so why such a huge disparity when it comes to pay and work rules? Look in the mirror and you'll find your answer.


First off, Loser!
Over half the company wasn't even around when the current contract was signed. By the way, what airplanes was RAH flying when it was in fact, signed? Turboprops. How long has the current contract been expired? These are all things that you maybe don't know or fail to take into consideration during your lame rants. You have no idea what you are talking about and are just a bitter person. Again, what was this regional that you worked for that is so great?
 
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First off, Loser!
Over half the company wasn't even around when the current contract was signed. By the way, what airplanes was RAH flying when it was in fact, signed? Turboprops. How long has the current contract been expired? These are all things that you maybe don't know or fail to take into consideration during your lame rants. You have no idea what you are talking about and are just a bitter person. Again, what was this regional that you worked for that is so great?


WOW! I am speechless. No more neuron wasting for me.
 
So I guess since your excuse is that RAH was flying turboprops when the contract was signed, that means you should just live with it. United, Continental, Delta, et al, should pay all their pilots based on their contracts from way back when they flew DC3s or earlier, eh? Why is it that when they got new aircraft they negotiated new pay for said aircraft? Have you? No. That's my point. But go ahead and keep making excuses--whatever let's you sleep at night. Just like calling me bitter. It's far from the truth, but I'm sure it does wonders for your self-esteem. So go ahead, keep flinging those personal attacks, maybe after a while you'll have enough self respect to fight for what you deserve. Oh, and I agree with Bolo--I'm done wasting my time on you, Ghost.
 
We were negotiating for the past 3.5 years but then that all came to a screeching halt when we decided to buy a bankrupt airline that nobody else wanted! Do you forget that? Talk about getting your facts straight? :uzi:
 
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Ok gentelmen... this has been a wonderful discussion... but lets tone down the attacks please before it gets in my red zone... discussion is one thing, but adding enuedo's only leads to more bombs being lobbed...

Moderator warning to tone it down.. thanks clr4
 
Couldn't pass a checkride in a 1900? Wow, that's sad. Superior airmen indeed. Where I came from (8 years before going to F9), we flew them single pilot. The Metro, too.

Yeah, 8 years of single-pilot 135 cargo in the mountains. No dues paid here...

After 9/11, we got quite a few regional pukes (furloughs). Most of 'em were gone inside of 6 months...

Well I did the same thing you did before come to RAH.
Just don't generalize whole group based on your judgement.
There are lucked out people ended up at better places with
alot lower time and experience I have.
I am not upset with them. They are just fortunated.
 
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Do you honestly feel this is worth arguing over? F9 will be out of business by years end. Oil is going up to a point where BB and his boys will sell off the airline in peices and none of this will matter anyways. Update your resume instead of arguing on this board.
 
Do you honestly feel this is worth arguing over? F9 will be out of business by years end. Oil is going up to a point where BB and his boys will sell off the airline in peices and none of this will matter anyways. Update your resume instead of arguing on this board.


You are absolutely right!
 
Do you honestly feel this is worth arguing over? F9 will be out of business by years end. Oil is going up to a point where BB and his boys will sell off the airline in peices and none of this will matter anyways. Update your resume instead of arguing on this board.


PGTB has a crystal ball. Awesome! Frontier is the only airline that is effected by fuel spikes. Good to know. Don't worry, if the NMB determines a STS the airline will be dead long before any bankruptcy that you envision.
 
True that other airlines are dealing with high fuel cost, but Frontier is one of the few that has been losing money even in these past 2 years when others have been making millions and even billions. F9 is living "pay check to paycheck" and if you cant make money at $50 a barrel you cant at $100.
 
Well your statement is half true. Frontier was making money even with high fuel prices when it was an Airbus only operation. Ever since RAH started flying the little airplanes under the "branded" flying as code share, Frontier has been hit very hard with much higher CASMs. The EMB-135, EMB-145, and the EMB-170 have been killing us. Until the branded operation is flying and accounting for Airbus 320 series and EMB-190/195 ONLY, it will continue to lose money in this fuel environment. It is still hopeful to the Frontier group that RAH holdings will divest the F9 operation to another mainline carrier in exchange for CPA contracts, then you guys can just worry about your own Fee For Departure future.
 
It is still hopeful to the Frontier group that RAH holdings will divest the F9 operation to another mainline carrier in exchange for CPA contracts, then you guys can just worry about your own Fee For Departure future.

That's likely best for the pilot group but since that would be best for the pilots, I'm pretty sure it won't happen.
 
PGTB has a crystal ball. Awesome! Frontier is the only airline that is effected by fuel spikes. Good to know. Don't worry, if the NMB determines a STS the airline will be dead long before any bankruptcy that you envision.

I'll allow him this one. We thought we'd ride out the last fuel spike and look what happened. :(
 
Couldn't pass a checkride in a 1900? Wow, that's sad. Superior airmen indeed. Where I came from (8 years before going to F9), we flew them single pilot. The Metro, too.

Yeah, 8 years of single-pilot 135 cargo in the mountains. No dues paid here...

After 9/11, we got quite a few regional pukes (furloughs). Most of 'em were gone inside of 6 months...

The problem with claiming you've "paid your dues" is that no matter what you or I or someone else has done in the past, there's ALWAYS someone else that has "paid more dues."

That comes in an infinite variety, from really big airplane pilots that had their career swept out from under them, or got tired of flying around the world - seeing places and shooting approaches I'll only dream of - to the combat proven former military pilots, to charter jet pilots that were on call for 10 years, to the Lifeguard pilots that had a 15 to 30 minute response time.

I had a lot of pretty crappy jobs in my career, but I didn't know any better at the time and basically enjoyed everyone of them.

I know of pilots that have washed out that flew C-141's (blew my mind and was depressing), were former Captains at Legacy or Mainline airlines (same thing) and pilots with 15,000 hours in single pilot freight turbine aircraft (that was frightening).

Years of experience and "paying dues" does not necessarily translate to being a good pilot or a pilot with a good attitude.

The exception, for me, was training 2 Air Force Academy grads that came straight from the military to F9. Both of them were so sharp, it made me proud to be an American, but I know even the Academies can put out marginal pilots.

And calling any group "pukes" is hypocritical in the extreme. I know of FO's that say, "God, I have to fly with a reserve captain puke."

Comparatively, "8 years of single-pilot 135 cargo in the mountains" ain't all that impressive to those that did it for 15 years or did it for 2 years and were lucky enough to find a job flying a G-4 or a BBJ or went overseas to get enough time to come back to a job they loved at a LCC, Legacy or a Fedex or UPS or liked living in Montana (or where ever) enough to make a career out of that.

It's really a silly argument if you think about it. There's always someone who had it easier than you and someone that had it a LOT tougher than you (or anyone).

Now for my own hypocrisy, I'm completely unimpressed with pilots that came out of a flight school with 250 hours, went straight into an RJ, have been there a couple of years and think the world owes them a career.

I guess pilots and other people that feel "entitled" just bug me to no end.
 
PGTB has a crystal ball. Awesome! Frontier is the only airline that is effected by fuel spikes. Good to know. Don't worry, if the NMB determines a STS the airline will be dead long before any bankruptcy that you envision.

My RAH buddy reports that STS *WAS* determined and RAH "won" the application.... let the games begin....
 

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