Anyone fly for Gulfstream out there?

[treetopflyer]

actually i paid cash

gotta love the stock market

Q: what trains CFI pilots to be airline pilots?

A: pattern flying in a 152

 

[kilomike]

Amen Freightdog!!

Well said, Freightdog!!

I'll take my chances with the sharks in the water before I'll take my chances with something even worse than a little shark, a nasty thing called Cooper, a scab!

Fellow swimmer,

kilomike

 

[starchkr]

Kilomike and Freightdog...

You could always just hop on Chalks... They could at least take you out to the islands, and in a much nicer aircraft.

 

[Timebuilder]

actually i paid cash

gotta love the stock market

Q: what trains CFI pilots to be airline pilots?

A: pattern flying in a 152

It's so good to know that little changes during a few days away at Sun n Fun. It's good to be back.

I'd add to your answer "A" with the following:
(flying the pattern in a 152 is just the fun part, especially on a breezy day...)

a. staying ahead of the multi student who has no clue as he tries to replicate your Vmc demo, or control the plane during a single engine landing. This is much more difficult than simply doing well on your own multi checkride. Try it.

b. teaching instruments in actual on the east coast, taking the instinctive responses you've cultivated in yourself and attempting to make them come through you student while:
1) scanning his instruments
2) monitoring his communications
3) checking for ice accretion
4) asking him questions about what he needs to do next
5) asking yourself qestions about what you need to do next to keep ahead of what is going on with yourself, ATC, the airplane, the student, and the flight as a whole
6) checking the student's skin color for a hint of green, and wondering if the last renter used your spare sic sac for his eight year old

c. answering questions you never thought to ask during you pre-CFI training, bringing insights and understanding to a new level


These are just a few of the tidbits you (in the editorial sense) need to mull over before deciding to PFT. They (PFT operators) can give you turbine time in your logbook, but they can't do more than expose you to their operation using an experienced pilot who has risen to the occasion of training you by virtue of the fact that he is still alive, having survived other "payers" who may have been less sharp than yourself.

In reality, he is an INSTRUCTOR, isn't he?

 

[bobbysamd]

Rich man's profession

I sure liked Checks' comment about professional aviation evolving into a rich man's profession. That was my immediate reaction when P-F-T hit the scene ten years ago. That's when it became crystal clear to me that the only way I'd ever get a regional job was to buy it.

I'd like to add a point to Timebuilder's point b. Along with everything he mentioned, being on a clearance and your instrument student busting an assigned altitude during a climb, and preparing the NASA report after the flight to CYA your tickets.

One more. Being a new CFI and working in a CAP Flight Encampment for selected cadets who get a week of training to solo, Having to cut flights short for one of your trainees who gets airsick during each flight and falling behind. Getting advice and bringing the trainee up to proficiency so he does solo.

 

[Fixin2Lnd]

Checks:

I think there is a reason you are still "spinning" with no rotor. Your "turbine" whirly-bird time means nothing to the majors. You are the type of person, with your age and lacking fixed wing time, that should give Gulfstream or PFT a serious thought. Several helo type guys have seen the light, cut right to the beef of the matter, took their military tuition reimbursement and stepped up to the plate. Think about it; you need fixed wing time. You can sit and whine about kids with their father's money getting "your" job or you can get on with your life and start flying some metal. Don't knock until you try it. I've flown with several ex-army helo guys from PFT outfits. All competent guys. All stepped up, got their time at these outfits and are now enjoying line flying at the majors...

 

[flydog]

All the check carriers, fracitonals and most 135 outfits are hiring. I dont see why anyone needs to whore themselves out to GIA. Most prefer low time guys because they wont jump ship right away

 

[stingray]

I know 6 former GIA Line captains personaly. Why is it that all them have said pretty much the same thing. All of them felt like they where back at flight schools training students again. I wonder why this is? Lets think about this.
Maybe its because a 0 time person can't be trianed to be a proper FO in 260 or 270hrs. These FO's are missing valuable expierence which they should already have to be an FO in this enviorment. And which you can not get in that amount of time.
How many months of flying does it take for these new FO's to actually become competent?
This is why the 0hrs to airline pilot in 6 months or so is complete B.S. and not safe.
I have joked with my passengers every now and then, saying i just got my liscense yesterday. These FO's realy have.

 

[kilomike]

Starchkr,
Chalks sounds like fun!! I'll be sure to take a look at a fun adventure. Thanks for the tip--I'd forgotten about them.

For you folks thinking about pft or gulfstream, why don't you take the money and do something that's harmless fun? Buy a block of multiengine time and take some pleasure trips to different places around the country! It's fun, and you could learn a great deal of flying without subjecting paying passengers to your "timebuilding". Go!! Just GO HAVE FUN and enjoy a Seneca or Baron or whatever, and see this beautiful country!!

Remember, flying can be alot of fun!! If I was a chief pilot quite frankly I would be far more impressed with someone enjoying some time in a Seneca and hearing about your trips and experiences rather than someone buying a job. Going out and buying a block of time is something that you will enjoy, and have wonderful memories and experiences. Even though I don't plan on a flying career, who knows? I might some day enjoy a block of time in a Seneca and make some pleasant day trips. There's a difference, a HUGE difference. I can't think of any pilot out there who would disrespect someone for buying a block of time and enjoying some pleasant trips in a light twin while also gaining multiengine time for the next step.

 

[Fixin2Lnd]

What's the difference with buying a block of flight time from Gulfstream? It's probably cheaper per hour, better quality of experience, and I bet Kilomike, they'd even let you look out the window at the beautiful water and beautiful land. If you were a Chief Pilot you would prefer recreational flying over Part 121 scheduled time?
May your day trips be pleasant...

 

[350DRIVER]

Fixin2lnd-
why are YOU so curious of Gulfstream?- how many more multiple questions are you gonna ask.?- At your TT you should be able to answer your own questions since they are no brainers...


sounds like FLAME BAIT........

 

[kilomike]

fixin to land,

I hope I am never on board any one of your flights if you are an airline pilot. If I knew who you were, I'd walk right off!!

I may own a corporate aircraft someday, a small twin most likely, and I'll tell you right now I would not hire someone who bought flight time on a flight involving paying passengers! I'd much prefer a flight instructor who rented a twin to gain hands-on experience since that person has character and can be trusted. Even if I was at an airline, I would feel the same way. Character counts, and buying a job shows obvious lack of character......

 

[Fixin2Lnd]

I just think that all this name calling stems from lack of information and jealosy. I don't believe these Gulfstream pilots are scabbing, to paraphrase kilomike. (Gulfscab) I think it's wrong to stereotype an entire airilne. I think that many of the slandering comments come from jealosy of seeing someone richer or younger doing something that you really want to do. Why do you care about them? Why don't you worry about yourself. I'm just trying to find the root of the issue, and I feel it is strictly economics.
Kilomike, be careful about throwing the scab term around so loosely. Learn your facts. This airline industry is a little sensitive to that word. Many of these "scabs" as you call them were protecting the freedom you enjoy, in our nation's military.
Many of the PFT'ers come from the military, having flown F-18's, F-16's and need to bridge the gap. There are retired helicopter guys looking for fixed wing time. There are also major airline flight attendants and mechanics building flight time on the side. These PFT places fill a void for people who need it. You obviously don't. Don't knock these professionals by calling them scabs.
You don't have to buy a ticket on any of the US's airlines. You are right; this is your choice.

 

[stingray]

Yes i agree that 121 flying is better then pleasure flying but.
In order to get quality time. you need to have some clue of what they hell is going on. These new pilots that GIA creates are way behind the 8 bal for their position which can create an unsafe enviorment, and every GIA capt knows it.

 

[bobbysamd]

Military pilot hiring

Quote: Many of the PFT'ers come from the military, having flown F-18's, F-16's and need to bridge the gap.

That comment was rich. Unless things have drastically changed in the past few years, fast mover drivers along with other military fixed-wing pilots have always gone the front of the line for consideration at the majors. It is the civilian-only guys and gals who face the uphill battle to be hired at the majors.

Fighter pilots will have maybe 3000 total hours when they separate, with virtually all of it being jet (F-14, F-15, F/A-18, etc. being multiengine jet). Military flight training is a known commodity and the individuals who go through it are a known commodity as well. Pilot groups at the majors are comprised largely of former military pilots. People tend to hire in their own image. Fighter pilots have no "gaps" to bridge.

That comment indeed showed lack of information.

 

[350DRIVER]

Bobbysamd-

You are 100% correct- there are NO gaps and Gulfjoke would be the last place an F-16 jock would go. I think this guy is nothing but Flame..........

 

[Snakum]

"Maybe its because a 0 time person can't be trianed to be a proper FO in 260 or 270hrs"

There are 250-hour 737 FOs in Europe who might disagree. The cadet scheme whereby one is trained from 0 hours for the right seat of an airliner is pretty common over there. I spoke online last year with a 350-hour 757 FO who came up via the cadet program with KLM (if I remember correctly). Check out PPRUNE and you'll find these low-hour FOs are numerous. Are they less professional or safe? I dunno.

But still ........ paying for a passenger ops job? I just dunno. Fixn2Land does open up a few interesting points, distasteful though they may be to some. But it just doesn't seem 'right' somehow. Maybe if I had $20,000 and an invitation I'd feel differently. I would hope not .... but you never know till you're faced with it. What ever blows one's skirt up, I guess.

Minh
(Aspiring corporate geek)

 

[stingray]

Its all about putting an ass in the right seat, doing it the cheapest way possible and if they can get them to pay for it, hell that even makes it better to them.
Saftey and expierence obviously doesn't matter in this part of the decision making process, with whatever company that puts somebody with such low time and expierence in a pilots seat in these types aircraft or more complex aircraft.
I wonder why it is that you even need 500hrs to fly single engine VFR 135.
There is an obvious gap in the training process here which is not being met.
"I know a few have made it through but"
To pilots thinking about going to GIA then to an alpa union airline. What do you think will happen (to some of you) if at your first ALPA union airline interview, you are being asked by the older senior union pilots about your flying career at GIA, then they realize you knowingly worked for and promoted an airlined owned and operated by a scab?
Food for thought

 

[bobbysamd]

Low-time FOs

You can train someone to be an FO on big iron in relatively low time. I know; I worked in two programs that did it, was associated with a third such program briefly, and interviewed for a job in a fourth, and met with a person about a job in a fifth. I worked for MAPD, which trained pilots for regional airlines.

Alitalia is the program I know the best. I instructed in that contract program at FSI ten years ago. We received the syllabus directly from the Alitalia training school in Alghero and adapted it under close training captain scrutiny to our Cadets and Seminoles. Not a second of the program is wasted. It progresses logically. We received students who earned their PPLs in Italy. We trained them for their U.S. Commercial-Instrument-Multis using Alitalia line and LOFT procedures. They returned to Italy for advanced training in Cheyennes. They would then be assigned to the line as DC-9 FOs at about 500 hours or so.

Lufthansa's program at ATCA in Goodyear, Arizona was similar. So was the program at IFTA in Bakersfield, which is an ATCA clone. JAL's program at IASCO in Napa was similar. Those students took advanced training in Kingair 90s. Some of these JAL grads went directly to L-1011's, I believe.

All of these programs work. It helps that the students have never set foot in an airplane and are hand-picked. They have to meet standards during each flight. You get a quality result at the end. Compare it to military UPT.

You can't compare these programs to Gulfstream, or Mesa or Comair. Yeah, I'm beginning to think, too, that this has been flamebait.

 

[Rook]

Uhhhh didn't this post have something to do with NW Airlink Express I. (Pitiful Airlines)???


Rook

600' AGL Autopilot on.

WHEW!

'We luvz us some flyin' And it be showin like a mothafu**a'