Anyone fly for Gulfstream out there?

[AWACoff]

Totally off topic but I was over at Sandys Beach last week and the surf was definitely up. They were calling 3-6. Beats me if it was or not but the surfers were riding inside the curl off of Full Point....yikes. That's big for mainlanders.

 

[8sm]

AWACoff,

You've got to have a large set of *#*&%'s for them big waves.
Mostly been off of DiamondHead myself, spent sometime on the Northshore in December about 6-7am not to bad then. But watch out as the Sun starts climbing. I'm to old for those big sets. I leave that for my 15yr old son, soon to turn pro. Now that will turn my grayhair, white.

Aloha for now....8sm

 

[Timebuilder]

Surfing.

I'll add that to my list of Things to Do.

 

[publisher]

Whoa

Hold on a minute.


First, check the times of those hired at F/o positions across the entire regionl board on the minimum side.

Second, answer me this. Are the people, paid or not paid, legal for the seat they are in?

Third, do you know the total time or times of any of these people at all?

Or, are you assuming because they entered this program they are incompetent and do not have any other flight experience.

If someone has 1100 tt that they got flight instructing, 125 multi engine, and were merely trying to pick up some turbine in an airline situation, are they not qualified for the seat and have about the same level of experience as a good many f/o's.

To say that this should be illegal and punishable by a large fine is over the line.

 

[Timebuilder]

While not illegal, it is certainly unconventional. Perhaps the best way to fight this would be to establish a 501 C 3 to disseminate safety information to the public in the style of "issue" political ads, asking:

"do you know who is flying you from Florida to the islands? One of your pilots could have purchased the right to fly as a first officer on your airline. Instead of hiring and paying a co-pilot, your airline may be using a revolving door of trainees who are so eager to fill their logbooks with "experience" that they have bypassed the seasoning process used by over ninety nine percent of professional pilots. Before you fly, ask if your copilot is paying for training. Brought to you by the concerned pilot's safety council."

Veteran narrator Peter Thomas could do the voice-over, as he lives in Florida. You'd know his voice from A&E, TLC, the History Channel, and over 5,000 commercials.



I don't think a large fine would be necessary.

 

[Checks]

"because it encourages airlines to take advantage of pilots, and there's already enough of that going around."

Exactly! Everything else on this thread is just extra B.S.

Then again, I hope everyone has to PFT for every position in Aviation. That would be way cool! Instead of getting paid 150K a year you should have to pay 50K a year to fly that 727. If a B1900 is worth 20K then I am sure a 727 is worth 50K. Come on UPS guy, get with the PFT program. You non-PFTers make me sick!If you REALLY want to make it then "step up to the plate" and throw that cash down!

 

[Ty Webb]

Scrublisher is technically correct when he says that we do not have a "right" to those jobs, at least without a nationwide pilot's guild or union. A guild or union would actually be a great thing- imagine being able to accumulate seniority, period, and not have to start over each time a company goes under or you want to move!

Anyway, back to the subject at hand- I guarantee you that the person in Houston who buys a ticket on Continental to Key West would be outraged to learn that the "Co-pilot" on the last leg was paying to be flying the airplane- and probably is not even a US citizen, here on an educational Visa!

I am surprised that bit of info has not made it onto "Dateline" or "60 Minutes" yet. Obviously, Scrublisher's e-rag won't ever cover the story, GIA buys too many ads at AEPS and other "Come, BE a PILOT" rags.

 

[publisher]

Ty

TY,

What story?

Is the guy not covered by the same rules and regulations as the rest of you. Is he paying GIA or the FAA. Do not they still govern the situation?

As to your point on seniority, is that not seniority at a company not in life. Companies pay more to higher seniority people as they have been with them and supposedly doing good work for a longer period. Not, heh, you did a great job for United for 14 years, I should reward you with some extra pay for your loyal service to them.

You keep bringing up that advertising point even though I said they only advertised once in a two year period. That would certainly keep me from saying anything negative about them.

I actually think that there is some merit to the dabate on pft in these type situations. I usually only jump in here when someone tries to argue a point that is not valid.

As I have said to you before, if inexperienced F/O' s was a sin, we would have a bunch of people in trouble. There are still chief pilots, check airman, and faa inspectors that are not going to put people in the cockpit because they are in a paid training program.

The trouble is that some read my disagreement with them as my wildly supporting PFT. Not the case.

 

[bobbysamd]

And the beat goes on . . . .

Another way to look at this is whether some people deserve special hiring privileges over others. I think this debate in part boils down to that issue. That's one of my issues with P-F-T.

Throughout this thread and other P-F-T threads suggestions and references are made that perhaps individual "A" deserves special privileges because he/she is 35 and is getting older fast, or individual "B" has too much rotor and not enough airplane. Apparently if you can (afford to) P-F-T you can obtain special treatment.

It's just my .02 opinion, but everyone should be afforded an equal chance - meaning no special treatment in hiring (or the best hiring money can buy). I go back to my example from before about the broadcasting business. It took me several years of hard work to get where I finally got in my radio career - and I was still working a lousy shift. I was working that shift on a promise from my boss that I would move back to the regular day shift for which I was hired. Perhaps a year later, he hired someone, ostensibly for my shift, but when he found out this fellow had played college baseball he put him on days. Seems that he wanted the guy to help him coach his Little League ball team. That didn't seem very fair to me.

 

[Timebuilder]

>>As I have said to you before, if inexperienced F/O' s was a sin, we would have a bunch of people in trouble. There are still chief pilots, check airman, and faa inspectors that are not going to put people in the cockpit because they are in a paid training program.


I think the "sin" in this isn't that the first officer is a human who is capable of error, but that he has bypassed the hiring regime, the screening process if you will, that would normally be in place. The previous experience, the resume, the pool, the interview, and finally, the company paid training and initial experience leading to a real job performed by a paid professional pilot, without a 250 hour time limit. A conventional FO continues to build experience past the 250 hour mark, while the PFT FO is ousted for another neophyte, taking the experience in the cockpit back to where it was 250 hours ago.

And sure, when I say "our jobs", it isn't in the legal sense. It's more the moral sense.

If pilots refuse this type of plan, it can't continue. Knowledge really is power.