Anyone fly for Gulfstream out there?

[Ty Webb]

Turbo, you have got it wrong here.

The problem with Gulfstream is that they rent out a required crewmember seat as block time.

I think you would feel a lot differently if Miami Air told you that your F/O's were going to be replaced with Gulfstream "grads" who were going to pay $75,000. for 250 hours of B737 time.

Did you pay anything to work at Miami Air? If so, could this have colored your opinion on the subject?

 

[lancair1]

Very entertaining response, and for a wife I'm already married to choice A

As for aviation, the guy/gal with 1900 time requires nill amount of advanced training to do what he has already been doing for the past 500 hours. This person is obviously going to transition in to the job much quicker and more efficiently.

I believe it is this reason that I can not fly a 152 for 5000 hours and get a job at Delta. I've flown 100 hours in a 152 and there is nothing new you're going to teach me or I'm going to learn about flying that little thing. (certainly there will be new situations, but as for the complexity of the plane, my truck is more complicated and requires more mental effort)

 

[Timebuilder]

Almost forgot, for Lancair1:

You'll get some stick time instructing.

"can you show me that again?

"what am I doing wrong?"

"is that an airplane coming at us?"

"what happens if the engine dies?"

...and other assorted situations that will save the student, the airplane, and you.

You'll learn a lot. And, the advanced training should be on the air carrier's dime, not yours. That's the main problem. You should be
paid not paying.

 

[kilomike]

There is an outside chance that in the course of running my business in the future that I may have a corporate aircraft. If so, I may have the opportunity to make a decision between someone w/800 hrs and time in a Gulfstream Beech and an 800 hour CFI with 150 multi from flying a rented twin or perhaps working an honest job ie. flying checks.

Well, I believe in something bigger than just "experience". I believe in character and integrity. The CFI above did not prostitute him or herself by buying a job. Character counts for so much in my eyes. I want to be able to trust the person with whom I am flying and that is crucial.

Frankly, I don't think I could ever trust someone who bought their way in and did not EARN their way toward a flying career.

Anyone thinking of the Gulfjoke thing, think about it. You could someday be facing the CEO or chief pilot at a corporation who believes in character, trustworthiness and integrity. Buying a job just does not prove to me that you are trustworthy.

PLEASE don't buy into the buy a job scam. Not only do I find it morally repugnant in of itself, it hurts the piloting profession by dragging down wages for pilots. Enough is enough already!!

 

[Freight Dog]

I read Eagle Jet Int'l ads where they advertise B737, A320 FO times in Europe with training in Miami. What the hell??!

I wonder what outfits...

 

[TurboS7]

Since we are talking about wives, I only discuss my real opinion about PFT with my wife of 24 years. I do love to throw fuel on the fire about a discussion, it always brings out some interesting things about people. If PFT and Gulfstream are such terrible things to aviation then way when I go to Skytel at FXE for lunch it is packed with Gulfstream aviators? Obviously someone is getting something for something. To the EAL issue that strike was an illegal strike called by ALPA, not voted on by membership, directly against procedure set by the NMB and the RLA. Check out the history then don't let it happen to your airline. With this RJ issue I see dark clouds on the horizon.FDJ and others have shown some enlightment and maturity on this subject, keep it up.As for Miami Air we have one PFT person who stayed with us that was originally with an LTA program or some European airline. The others went on to their repective contract airline. We havn't done that for a long time, like 5 or 6 years. No I didn't pay a dime for my training, no way could I have afforded it. When people were leaving right and left they made up a training contract where they take 200.00 a month from your paycheck and give it all back to you in three years with interest. It worked, as most of the guys stayed and collected the 10k to 12k. Again I couldn't have afforded to pay even that. I do make a commitment to all my employer's and have held to it, if they give me a type rating I will work for them for a year. This is followed by a handshake and my word, and I have kept it through 4 type ratings. Got to run to a ball game....

 

[Ty Webb]

Turbo- you missed my question-

How would you feel if Miami Air announced that instead of employing F/O's, from now on, all newhires would be coming from Gulfstream via a program where they were paying $75,000. for 250 hours of F/O time.

How would you feel? Because that's what Gulfstream is doing, in a nutshell.

When you were flying the Lears, how would you have liked it if your company said that instead of hiring F/O's. that they would be renting out the F/O seat for 250 hours to pilots paying $50,000. for the flight time?

And, to Kilomike- it happens already. I worked at several FL based 135 companies- one that was a Metroliner operation, and two that were bizjet operators. We got floods of resumes from Gulfstream F/O's. and they ALL went into the trash, even when we badly needed F/O's for the Metro's.

One Chief Pilot went as far as to post some of these resumes on the bulletin board in the crew room, with a note saying, "these guys made a paying job disappear". Another D.O. , upon interviewing a pilot for a Westwind F/O position, had the applicant say to him "I'll fly for free, to get experience". The D.O. threw him out of his office, in front of all of us, saying, "We only hire professionals around here- if you're working for free, you're not a professional".

As far as most pilots are concerned, after having worked our way up though the ranks, it is particularly disgusting to see people who paid money to NOT build the experience. If you are a Gulfstream guy, you'll never know why you didn't get some of the interviews/jobs, but you'll probably figure it out sooner or later.

 

[Airline Pilot27]

Turbo S7 posted: "To the EAL issue that strike was an illegal strike called by ALPA, not voted on by membership, directly against procedure set by the NMB and the RLA."

Well, I guess I undertand where your coming from now and why you don't see anything wrong with Gulfstream. I post messages about such subjects because I care about our proffession and am obligated to educate those that are just starting out.

regards

 

[Freight Dog]

Looks like Turbo is a Lorenzo fan, and not only that, but he's happy flying his 737-800 as a captain for $88k where a majority of rEAL pilots are at UAL and other majors who made that kinda money in their 2nd or 3rd year as FO's.

----
A SCAB takes your job, a job he could not get under normal circumstances. He can only advance himself by taking advantage of labor disputes and walking over the backs of workers trying to maintain decent wages and working conditions. He helps management to destroy his and your profession often ending up under conditions he wouldn't have scabbed for. A SCAB doesn't think long-term, nor does he think of anything other than himself. His smile shows fangs that drip with your blood, for he willingly destroys families, lives, careers, opportunities, and professions at the drop of a hat. He takes from a striker what he knows he could never earn by his own merit: a decent job. He steals that which others earned at the bargaining table through blood, sweat and tears, and throws it away in an instant - ruining lives, jobs, and careers.

 

[TurboS7]

All Lorenzo did was prove how stupid pilot's as a whole could be and took advantage of it. Sometimes all it take is someone observing this board and they would agree with the same. We have babies in the industry here and suddernly they are labor experts and all kinds of experts about everything. Did you ever think about the chances of you making it to the God blessed profession, almost the same chances of being a major league pitcher, enjoy your Dash 8.