Anyone fly for Gulfstream out there?

[172driver]

I think my post was directed at the FO with 250 hrs that I keep reading about in this thread. I have no problem with somebody who has some legit time in an airplane paying to build multi-turbine time...I would if I could. You have paid your dues--instructed, built some time, made some decisions, seen some things. The post was not an attack on you.

How well do those low time guys handle the emergencies you're talking about? I'm really not one to talk at 600 hrs but...simulation is a lot different than reality. Also, the ability of your low timers to pass an FAA checkride doesn't make me feel any more confident that they are safe pilots in daily ops. Especially if it took them more than one shot at the ride as you seem to imply happens...that's scary.

I have students who pass FAA rides all the time who I would not put my family with in an emergency situation. The checkride and subsequent license is a license to learn. Learning only takes place with time and time should not be built with unknowing passengers aboard IMO. Following your logic, you would feel that a freshly minted instrument pilot is safe to carry passengers in IMC because they passed a checkride in smooth VFR conditions under the hood?

IMO, at 250 hrs nobody is qualified to fly a 1900 with passengers on board, period. How much IMC time, decision making time, actual emergency experience do they have on day one of being a FO? Not ripping on you or GIA...just saying that I think pilots should build some time, as you did, before carrying passengers.

If not, maybe your company should inform the passengers that they're flying with FO's who have about 1/4 - 1/8 the experience of a normal 121 FO. Let them make an informed decision about their safety.

 

[sharpeye]

you have a very interesting mind and concept that nobody at 250 hours has no right to fly passengers, period" Kind of interesting since I have a couple friends who are in the air force flying fighters and a b-1 carrying missles and bombs and have not much more time then 250. They can kill a lot more people with their toys then a 1900 could. I only saw one person who had to have a little extra training, and I emphasize a little, one extra sim period to pass his ride in the 1900 sim. And let me state to you again, since I'm not sure if you read my previous post, we then have to pass a checkride in the airplane. So now you are having to pass two checkrides. But I'm sure that wouldn't matter to you since in your tone of your message it seems like you have passed every checkride you had. And also do you think the capt onboard only has 250hours? I know you don't but you seem to have forgotten that its a 2 man crew. The other opinions and posts on here were about PFT and I can see where they are coming from and some have legit complaints, but as far as what you are saying, I have to say you need to rethink your ideas.

 

[AWACoff]

Great Lakes has been known to hire low time FOs. They have never had a fatal accident that was their fault (Quincy is one I'm sure many crews remember). The last accident we had was the unbelievable gear up landing on 4R in ORD. Guess what...both pilots were fairly high time (FO was ex-military). Low time pilots are not accidents waiting to happen. They just have to work a lot harder. I have to agree with a lot of what Sharpeye posted. Flight instructing does not prepare you for the type of weather 121 flights are dispatched into. Only 121 style flying (including 135, corporate, etc..) can prepare you for picking your way through squall lines, landing with a couple of inches of ice on the plane, dealing with irate passengers, etc. I think the biggest thing flight instructing does is help you operate in a 2 pilot enviroment. That was truly the hardest part for me. On the accident note...how many crashes has Gulfstream had? I'm guessing not that many....if any at all.

 

[sharpeye]

Gulfstream has yet to have one accident, an incident yes (taxiing and clipping a wingtip, by a high time capt I might add) but not an accident.

 

[flydog]

I think the Air Force provides much better training than Gulfstream does. I dont think you can compare a 250 hr GIA FO to a 250 hr F-16 pilot.

 

[350DRIVER]

How in the world are you comparing a well seasoned, highly trained and "PROVEN" 250 hour Air Force pilot to a 250 hour GIA pilot?

Are you feeling alright.??
That has to be one of the funniest posts I think I have ever read on a message board anywhere let alone an "aviation" one-

cheers

 

[sharpeye]

Actually I'm feeling fine, thanks for your concern hightimer. The comparison is easily made. Both are trained on the airplanes they are to fly. A well seasoned 250 hour AF pilot?? I don't think they are well seasoned when they get out of UPT (undergrad pilot training since I'm not sure you understand what that would mean). But yet, they are now soloing in a jet, with live ordinance. They were trained to do so. A GIA FO is trained to fly the plane he is on, the 1900. Do you know what type of training an AF pilot goes through? I doubt it, but just to let you know its really not all that different from regular airline training, they just do it all in different planes. When you realize its not how many hours someone has, but the quality of training, what the hours are in, what type of experience they have (such as weather) you will always have a misguided opinion on pilots. But till then, fly safe please.

 

[350DRIVER]

Glad you are feeling fine since your post would say otherwise-
You are comparing a "bought" job versus a "deserved" hard fought slot in the Air Force- funny how you used this comparison but at your TT I can understand your ignorance towards such a "comparison" as you put it so no worries regarding that aspect of the post- I never knew that you could compare AF training or any military training program for that matter against such a "bought" program as GIA is....

It is a true slap in the face towards any military pilot to put GIA and the AF in the same post as you did... It it quite humerous however that you "seem" to think the quality of training is the same since you are comparing the pilots at the 250TT mark to be "equal".... I think hell would have a better chance of freezing over before an AF pilot would "have" to buy his job-food for thought

As you put it-(I don't think they are well seasoned when they get out of UPT (undergrad pilot training since I'm not sure you understand what that would mean) ""- my stupidity then, guess they are just given or assigned multi-million dollar equipment to fly around without being "seasoned" pilots as you put it- guess its learn as you go huh....

But you did finally contradict yourself by mentioning "quality" of the training towards the end of your post- -enough said " . "

a "misguided" opinion huh?? I think as most can see its basically just a matter of "basic" common sense as well as logical reasoning-

coffee is best without additives for some-

 

[350DRIVER]

How many of the pilots who "donated" (for a better word) over $18,000 for the right seat did not make it to the line after training at GIA.?? I would say few to none washed out and I think it is a safe assumption to make that a "blank check" says alot more than the quality of "skills" of a 400TT wonder pilot who is now deemed to be a safe and competant pilot who can now safely carry your parents as well as mine on board the aircraft... I think its a great money maker though and one cannot argue that point..

 

[sharpeye]

you are the one thats typing in an uncalm unprofessional manner. I was in the air force and began pilot training, however, I left since the civilian side was a good market at the time, prior to 9-11, actually back in 98'; however, I still have several friends in the AF and know what they went through and what their training was like. And yes, it is very similar to regular airline training (as I said in my previous post and what I've gone through with GIA when I went through the program, whether PFT or not, and have also gone through training in the 767 and the 757). Are they seasoned pilots? I would say they are now, seeing how two are overseas in the fight against terrorism. Were they when they got right out of UPT? I'd say no, and they even admitted it to. That's the thing with some pilots, and you. You overestimate your abilities and what you have gone through. You are flying a kingair 350 according to your profile, but I bet I could give you a nice system's quiz on it and really see what you know. Getting your fresh private pilot certifcate you go through a lot different training then when you go to your first turboprop for a part 91 co. and then you go through another whole different type of training when you go through an airline ab initio training or 135 (some 135s I guess I should say, more of the ones who fly business jets). Flying is a never ending learning process. When I went through GIA program, again even though I paid to go through it, I worked my butt off to learn the systems along with every one else in that class, some who even have quite a few more hours then you (but they still aren't as smart as you though, now are they). Like I said in a previous post, you become more experienced by how much you fly and what conditions you fly in (they go hand in hand) Do you learn as much flying on nice sunny calm days or more when you are trying to pick your way around thunderstorms? Just as you are with a part 91 co. (I'm guessing) you have the option of whether or not you want to make the trip depending on the weather. At GIA or even where I'm flying now, we don't have that option. If you can get off the ground (basically if the airport is open) you are flying. If there is a storm off the departure end, well you better turn the radar on before you push the throttles up and find the best way through it. You gain more valuable experience flying for a 121 then you do instructing or a 91 co like what you are probably with. Would I fly on GIA? Yes I would, I was able to see probably the majority of the pilots fly and have no problem or fears flying them. I believe they know their systems and how to fly the aircraft. From what I see on your profile of 1400 I bet you are more within about 100-200hours of me since I haven't even added a lot of training that I've done (in the air force) but I'm fine with that because I'm flying what I want to now. You need to relax some and really think about what you say before you say it. I've read several of your other posts and they all seem to be written while you are upset. If you want to mature as a pilot and a person you need to learn how to have a reasonable discussion without getting your temper up or your feelings hurt.