Anyone fly for Gulfstream out there?

[sharpeye]

JIM
Just wanted to say thank you for your post and thought it was really good. And I do want to say to you and 350Driver, I don't think I was making myself clear as far as a comparison for an AF pilot and a GIA pilot. I thought I was trying to but guess I didn't good enough. When I say the training is comparible I believe it is. In the AF they start out in T-37s, small light twins, two seater (side by side). they then go into T-38s small supersonic aircraft. After UPT they then go to the jet they bid on, depending on how up they finished in their class. They are heavily trained on the aircraft they are assigned to. Just like an GIA FO is heavily trained on the 1900 going through every possible emergency (and there isn't a capt in the sim, just the two FO beginners and they have to do the right immediate action items) They also have to do all the captain runups and anything else the capt would do. So actually they know everything about the airplane as would a capt on it. Do you they have the experience to make a decision in an emergency? Who knows, I think it defers with each one, but then again you have the experienced capt sitting next to them, and if not, just like what JIM said, they would most likely land at the nearest airport, and in these days, that probably wouldn't be to far away and they are very capable of doing that. Would I stick a GIA FO in a fighter? hell no, he wasn't trained on it. Would I stick an AF pilot in a 1900? no again, again he wasn't trained on it. I honestly wish there was a way for people like 350Driver to see the training process of a GIA FO and maybe some people would realize the guys and gals going through the program work hard, just because they pay doesn't guarentee a pass. I've seen otherwise. When you for over $18,000 whether it's mommy and daddy's or yours, it's not something you take too lightly and you want to do good so the students wanting to study and do their best isn't a problem.

 

[350DRIVER]

Sharpeye-
It is just my "opinion"- nothing more, nothing less...- some will agree and others will disagree. All that is posted, debated, and voiced here on this board should not be taken personally and I think for the most of the posts they are taken at "face value"...
I see where you are coming from and I can respect that however it is a difference of opinions, once again nothing more and nothing less...

Having said that I think that this is a great debate and for the most part the people against PFT (me being one of them) has kept all composure and why am I "upset" as you put it while I am responding.?- sit back relax and enjoy the debate!- If you are happy with your choices then great!

cheers

 

[172driver]

I'm out of this one but just wanted to say amen about the pattern work at DED. That place is a death trap!

 

[Checks]

I think everyone should PFT to "get ahead". You want to make CPT at Gulfstream? PFT. You want a job at the majors? PFT.

When I was a flight instructor I knew a few guys who flight instructed for free. Do you think that helped the flight instructing pay scale? NO! But after reading this thread I am convinced they were correct in working for free. Hey, they have to build hours like everyone else to "get ahead". Actually I think everyone should PFT for every job in aviation. It is a fun job and is way cool so if you REALLY want to "get ahead" then PFT is the way to go. Every employer should demand that of their pilots. If PFT was in place at EVERY airline then we all could "get ahead" I think I will suggest it to my employer.

You guys where right. Sorry it took me so long to see the light.

PFT for all pilot jobs!

 

[172driver]

Is this guy kidding or just rich? Why don't you pay for some of our training too if your $$ is burning a hole in your pocket?

 

[Timebuilder]

Interesting post, Jim.

That captain who put the guy off his plane finally had an opportunity to get back at all those guys at the airline who had given him a piece of their minds about PFT over the years. With his FO, he finally has someone to talk to . The jumper's better move WOULD have been to listen more, and talk less. If he had sat down on the jumpseat and started to bash Christians, he might have found a pilot who had flown for Mission Aviation Fellowship. Discretion is the better part of valor.

Military aviators start out as a group who have been screened out of the ranks to a standard that reduces the amout of "wasted" money spent on washouts every year. If you start with anunusual, high quality individual, you will have much greater quality in an aviator at 250 hours. I don't think an accurate comparison can be made to the FAA checkride requirements as an equivalency. The fact remains, the aviator's training was paid by you and I, and for a specific purpose. He hauls no paying passengers who are expecting a pair of pilots up front.

In general-

Consider this: granted, everyone has a right to make their own chioces in life, both good and bad. That said, when you go PFT with Gulf you are aiding and abetting an operator who is not acting in the best interests of aviation. If more pilots refused to sign up for this company and those like it, the operators would have no chioce but to change their business model and actually pay a pilot for his professional services, and to train that individual as a part of the cost of doing business as an airline. Is this starting to sound familiar? Yes, it's the basis of collective bargaining. If more pilots stand together on this, as opposed to exercising their singular self-interest, the PFT will go away like the dodo.

Forums like this are where the awareness starts. Ever see that movie from about 25 years ago called "Norma Rae"? Sally Field held up that sign that said "strike" and one by one those machinces were shut down, leading to a silence that was heard across the garment industry.

If we refuse to participate, and teach others about PFT, then we can change the way Gulfstream does business, if only a little at a time. It means putting aside what might be perceived as being good for you, but it can lead to changes that help to make aviation a profession, and not just a job that can be purchased.

End of speech.

 

[B-J-J Fighter]

This Thread

350DRIVER and Others who keep responding:

You guys need to worry about more important things in life like getting laid, rather than who PFTed and who didn't. Im telling you it will make you sleep better at night.

 

[lancair1]

I'm interested in this question:

Pilot A: cfi with 800 dual given/ 150 multi

Pilot B: 800 hours tt/ 500 in a beech 1900


Who would you rather be the pilot of your 1900, king air, etc. after 800 hrs tt?

My problem with instructing is that the instructor doesn't even get to fly. It is very true that it is a tough job that cultivates leadership and skill level, but I can't seem to get around the fact that for the next 800 hours I'll get to touch the yoke 5% of the time.

Another question that is probably a deciding factor for quite a few people is whether you value flying a better plane or making more $ your first year.

 

[Checks]

Interesting but immaterial question. Of course flying a B1900 in 121 ops is better than flight instructing. The only problem is the PFT or PFW(Pay for Work) part of the equation. It erodes everyones pay scale.

 

[Timebuilder]

Let see, I'll ask another question. You'd like to marry a woman who will be a satisfying mate. You marry:

A) a woman who is bright, attactive, and blushes when she says she is really looking forward to your honeymoon.

B) a woman who knew 1000 men from the age of 17 while working at the Chicken Ranch in Nevada.

One has more experience on the equipment.

The other has more inner strength and character.

Who would you marry?



Just thought I might inject some levity.



If you are the operator, it's your responsibility to provide the advaced training for your hirees. I'd want to provide the training for the spouse, too.