Anyone fly for Gulfstream out there?

[flydog]

GIACAPT

Your post is well thought out and concise however the point still remains that pilots like yourself that buy jobs put other experienced and well qualified pilots who have paid their dues on the street and affect the earning potential of all pilots. Since you bought your job your skills and experience come into question. This is not to say that 100% of PFTers are incompetent pilots but the question mark remains

 

[350DRIVER]

GIACAPT-

The bottom line still remains that you "BOUGHT" your job and you can try to justify why/how this is "accepted" etc.. from now till hell freezes over and most opinions towards Gulfjoke will remain the same.- I am not attacking your personal flying skills nor is anyone else on this board it is the "anatomy" and make up of Gulfstream which makes most upset since in reality IF their was NO "buying" of the right seat THEN Gulfstream would have to HIRE, TRAIN, and PAY new hires at THEIR COST not the PILOT's cost- - yeah just like most airlines do - 1) Company hires you 2) Company TRAINS you @ their cost NOT yours 3) Company PAYS you for the position that THEY hired you for..... As for the "numbers" that you posted...- no comment, some things are better left unsaid.

 

[DoinTime]

...the point still remains that pilots like yourself that buy jobs put other experienced and well qualified pilots who have paid their dues on the street...

The fact is that GIA will always be pay for training and if you are unwilling to work for a company that has PFT why are you concerned about who works there? Nobody has an inherent right to work anywhere inparticular, regardless of their experience level, and with an attitude like yours its no wonder your on the street.

If you want to work SWA your going to need a type, if you want to work for GIA your going to have to PFT, if you want to work for United its going to help to be a woman. You need to do what is neccessary to acheive the goals you set for yourself. Find your place in the world, sit your butt down and quit your whinning.

 

[GIACAPT]

As for the "numbers" that you posted...- no comment, some things are better left unsaid.

I have no reason to give false statements. The figures that I posted on pilots leaving here for other carriers are off of the top of my head. I can actually remember the individuals going there. As for the numbers, of course they are not ironclad, but they are conservative and truthfull.

your skills and experience come into question

I can respect that comment because I might have felt the same way if I were outside looking in. However, it does give me extra motivation to do my best so that when it comes to pass folks are suprised that I was PFT.

Some of the posters above refer to PFT as "buying a job". This is where we are most likely to disagree. I did PFT. That is not in question. The initial training, and supposedly the 250 hrs, is covered in the initial fee. After the 250 is up it is a different story.

I was one of the pilots hired while others where shown the door. There was apparently a difference between some of us. In the beginning I was gambling on the timing and betting on myself. Since then I have kept my nose clean, upgraded, flown w/o incident, and logged a couple thousand hours. The company paid for the type/atp. The initial fee, if you do a cost analysis, barely covers the training costs. I didn't pay for my job, I paid for a shot at my job.


(not being sarcastic)
As for us putting more qual. pilots on the street. Those pilots really wouldn't want to work here.

 

[KingAirer]

...You skipped steps in the paying dues portion of the Flying cycle by Paying money. Anyone spending time flying around in a 150 on a hot summer day trying to build hours that are competitive at most airlines, knows what paying dues are.

 

[fly4ever]

Never PFT

Mesaba Airlines has never been PFT. The company has always paid their pilots from the date of hire and never required any payment upfront accept for an interview fee when Comair used to do the interviews for Mesaba. Mesaba has conducted their own interviews over the past few years. Also, hotel(single occupancy) and minimum pay guarantee(75 hrs) is provided from the first day of training.

 

[skyboat]

Guys, this argument is way too old. Get a life.

Aviation is not the only industry where PFT and slave labor exist. My father is an attorney, and yes, he has to pay for his continuing legal education (Yes, he is a sole practicioner but the expense still comes out of his pocket) I'm sure Medical professionals have to pay for some of there own eduction. Attorneys and physicians for corporations have this education paid as a benefit. It is not a right. It may be a standard benefit in the industry but it is not a right. It is just like a company paying for a pilot's recurrent training, LOFT's and medicals as a standard benefit in the airline industry.

My sister is completing her masters degree in Geoology this spring. She will be hitting the the streets looking fo a job, and right now it looks like she is going to have to take a position with no compensation whatsoever. She will merely be doing it for the experience. Now I must tell you that she will be working for the U.S. GOVERNMENT! Can the argument be made that she is taking a position from someone else that has paid their "dues". Yes, absolutely, if you read this board. However, the government will not pay someone to do this job and there are many people who will do it. Also, in some circumstances, the only way to get a paid position is to take a full time volunter position. Is this right? No. Is this fair? No. Is it a fact of life? Yes.

PFT is wrong. No one denies that. You ask 200 different pilots and you get 200 different definations of PFT. PFT will never go away in the minds of some people. GIA is nothing more than a flight school. They just happen to do the flight training in a Beech 1900. An individual goes to a flight school and pays a given amount of money to earn their ratings. After that the flight school gurantees them a job. They instruct there, get their experience and move on. What difference is that than the person who went to GIA and got to fly a Beech 1900 instead of instructing? I came through on the flight instructor route but I see no difference. I guess in the end we are all PFT whores...

 

[FlyinHigh]

I guess it all depends on what your goals are. A pilot is at Point "A" and wants to be at "B". As we know, there are a myriad of routes to take from Point "A"-- Military: AirForce, Army, Navy, Marines, Coast Guard, NASA, NWS, NOAA , Air Guard --Helicopters, Heavy Jets, Fighters, Props, etc. Civilian: Banner Tow, CFI, CFII, MEI, privately owned a/c, Corporate, Commuter, Freight, Flying the pipeline, Alaska Bush Pilot, Traffic watch, etc. There are numerous subcategories such as "Do I instuct at a flight school or on my own, do I fly for a corporate with props or jets, G2's or Challengers; a commuter with Dash-8's, or Dash-7's, etc.; Should I go Navy or Airforce or Air National Guard, fighters or heavies?"
Not all these options are available to everyone. This could be because of medical reasons, family obligations, financial limitations or geographical limitations, age requirements, or experience requirements, etc. These are factors that you bring to the table. This doesn't even include being rejected by the government or employer, or ,if your goal at point "B" isn't currently available due to military cutbacks, airlines not hiring, or pilots on strike. These factors may be out of your control.
What is your goal? Do you want to fly fighters? Do you want to fly regionals? Do you want to fly for the majors? Figure out YOUR goal and then start YOUR path.
Do I harbor animosity toward someone who got fighters and I got heavies? Am I malevolent toward someone who got hired before me because of there age, family, financial backings or race? Do I hate someone who got the instructor job and I didn't? Will I not fly with someone who's father paid for everything and I had to take out loans? NO! And you know why? Because I don't blame or hate someone for having good fortune. It's futile and it's a waste of time and energy that could be better spent focusing on achieving MY GOAL, not theirs. Stop worrying about everyone else and start focusing on getting to point "B", YOUR way.

 

[B-J-J Fighter]

PFT

FlyingHigh,

Great post, my seniments exactly. This whole PFT think is stupid and very childish. If I had the money I would have gone to Gulfstream in a heart beat rather than instructing. I chose instructing because I had very few options.

I dont hate people that did PFT at places like Gulfstream, in fact Im a little jealous. This PFT thing has been run in the ground. I wish there was an ignore feature on this site, so I could ignore and threads dealing with PFT. I'm out.

 

[bobbysamd]

P-F-T v. The Golden Rule

To expand on the viewpoints above, all roads lead to Rome. Perhaps.

Here's some more food for thought, which I learned when I was in the commuter job market ten years ago, when P-F-T started:

The Golden Rule: He who has the gold makes the rules.

One final Gulfstream question, though: What percentage of Gulfstream P-F-T grads do not get hired by regionals? That's been one of my suspicions of such programs. That after one completes it that's the only airline flying that person will ever do, and to stay employed in aviation the person has to take a step back, e.g. instructing. I'd submit that even before 911 that these folks were in the majority.