Another aircraft order from CAL

[Cpt Oveur]

CAL has been widebody limited for too long. The bean counters are already looking at lost revenue for IAH DXB routes and others. This just shows how their 787 deliveries are just guesses now. When they signed for aircraft 19 and 20 back in '05, they were confident they would be the last 777 orders. Now that the 787 timelines are not reliable, they're not going to wait until the 53rd 787 airframe (first one in line for CAL) to come online. Well done, Continental.

 

[ATRCA]

And in the nineties Continetal was bankrupt too. Career expectation are as cyclical as the airline business itself. Im sure with the 20 w/b you guys own you have a better chance for that seat compared to the 80 w/b at United. Oh and aircraft orders are just that orders. they don't mean anything until there on property.

Where an airline was 20 yrs ago or even 10 yrs ago means nothing. Less than 10 yrs ago UAL was the $hit, had the best contract and was the place everyone wanted to be. It is not that now. Nothing about who they used to be can change where they find themselves now. CAL does not "need" a merger. Most analysts have stated that CAL is the strongest domestic airline and would do best alone. Flip side, Tilton has been talking about merger as a survival strategy for quite a while now.

 

[Cpt Oveur]

Where an airline was 20 yrs ago or even 10 yrs ago means nothing. Less than 10 yrs ago UAL was the $hit, had the best contract and was the place everyone wanted to be. It is not that now. Nothing about who they used to be can change where they find themselves now. CAL does not "need" a merger. Most analysts have stated that CAL is the strongest domestic airline and would do best alone. Flip side, Tilton has been talking about merger as a survival strategy for quite a while now.

In the current landscape they are the strongest company. However, if NWA/DAL combine, CAL cannot compete against a company with strong Transatlantic, Pacific, and South American presence. SVP of Ops Mark Moran and Smiseck have said to many pilot groups that if a merger occurs, CAL will do whatever it needs to do to remain competitive, including merge with another carrier. Merging with UAL has been a rumor for years. Seeing United execs, attorneys, ex-execs in the Houston HQ doesn't do anything to stop the rumors either.

 

[ATRCA]

In the current landscape they are the strongest company. However, if NWA/DAL combine, CAL cannot compete against a company with strong Transatlantic, Pacific, and South American presence. SVP of Ops Mark Moran and Smiseck have said to many pilot groups that if a merger occurs, CAL will do whatever it needs to do to remain competitive, including merge with another carrier. Merging with UAL has been a rumor for years. Seeing United execs, attorneys, ex-execs in the Houston HQ doesn't do anything to stop the rumors either.

I agree completely. I have a healthy respect for United in particular the UAL ALPA and the unity of their pilot group. I'm not trying to throw those guys under the bus. Right now CAL is a stronger airline and CAL pilots appear to have more to lose.

 

[4got2flare]

Amazing the General is always thumping his chest about Big D orders. Hrmm... new to you China MD-90's and 10 737-700's. New to you 757's that have etops (copying CAL again) and a couple 777's. Man your on a role... How do you play that into your NW bid?

 

[Cpt Oveur]

CAL ALPA is working hard with management to finish negotiations prior to year's end to have a new contract inked before the current one is said to 'expire.' They have significant hurdles to overcome before having work rules/compensation similar to that of Delta or United. What are the odds that management sells it to IAH while EWR, CLE, and GUM shoot it down, and it passes anyway?

Side note - American's 757s, the Rolls powered, not the ones from St Louis, have been ETOPS for years. BOS-MAN, and MIA to south america are the examples that come to mind. Year or two before CAL.

 

[pipe]

Where an airline was 20 yrs ago or even 10 yrs ago means nothing. Less than 10 yrs ago UAL was the $hit, had the best contract and was the place everyone wanted to be. It is not that now. Nothing about who they used to be can change where they find themselves now. CAL does not "need" a merger. Most analysts have stated that CAL is the strongest domestic airline and would do best alone. Flip side, Tilton has been talking about merger as a survival strategy for quite a while now.

United has hubs in Chicago, Denver, Los Angeles, San Francisco and Washington, D.C., and flies to 117 destinations in 26 countries. The airline operates about 1,700 flights a day, or about 20 percent of all U.S. flights. It has the most extensive worldwide route structure of any airline.

My grandmother can order airplanes. You can't order the world's most extensive route structure.

Questions?

PIPE

 

[nimtz]

Questions?

PIPE

Yes we forget Pipe's previously stated opinion, no INTERNATIONAL business traveler has ever heard of Continental...

Best Executive/Business Class
OAG Airline of the Year Awards (2003, 2004, 2005, 2006)

Continental Airlines is the world's fifth largest airline. Continental, together with Continental Express and Continental Connection, has more than 3,100 daily departures throughout the Americas, Europe and Asia, serving 144 domestic and 138 international destinations.

Questions or should this pointless koolaid war go on? Your high nose junk sounds like some former intern new hire in March '99...

 

[General Lee]

Amazing the General is always thumping his chest about Big D orders. Hrmm... new to you China MD-90's and 10 737-700's. New to you 757's that have etops (copying CAL again) and a couple 777's. Man your on a role... How do you play that into your NW bid?

Copying CAL, getting 757s with ETOPS? Should we not get aircraft that can go across the Atlantic to cities that may not fill a 767? We have a lot more widebodies across the Atlantic to Europe than you do, you know? Copying? What is this? The third grade? I guess getting 737-700s is also copying you, and Southwest.... I think we may still get MD90s if we merge with NWA. How are you going to do in a UAL merge?

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[IAHERJ]

Copying CAL, getting 757s with ETOPS? Should we not get aircraft that can go across the Atlantic to cities that may not fill a 767? We have a lot more widebodies across the Atlantic to Europe than you do, you know? Copying? What is this? The third grade? I guess getting 737-700s is also copying you, and Southwest.... I think we may still get MD90s if we merge with NWA. How are you going to do in a UAL merge?

Bye Bye--General Lee

Just fine sir. Thanks for all the concern. Somehow I knew you would be the first responder to this thread. Funny huh....

 

[IAHERJ]

United has hubs in Chicago, Denver, Los Angeles, San Francisco and Washington, D.C., and flies to 117 destinations in 26 countries. The airline operates about 1,700 flights a day, or about 20 percent of all U.S. flights. It has the most extensive worldwide route structure of any airline.

My grandmother can order airplanes. You can't order the world's most extensive route structure.

Questions?

PIPE

I agree with you 100%. With that being said, these aircraft will come and arrive quickly merger or no merger. I think, if done correctly; a Delta/Northwest and a United/Continental merger could make for a great career enhancement for future pilots in that it would leave this country with 3 mega carriers. They would be(in order): 1. United 2. Delta 3. American. With investment from Luftansa(United), Air France(Delta), and British Airways(American); you have the whole world pretty much linked together by 3 truly global networks. Job security would ultimately be greater down the road.

This doesn't mean that the next 5 years won't be messy as we clean up from these potentially messy mergers. It is going to get ugly before it starts to get better. I just think that long term we, as pilots will benefit from having these mergers take place now, rather than later. Just my .02

IAHERJ

 

[whatitdoing?]

General, I use to like you up to this point. Now i've come to the conclusion that you're just an a**. You actually think your merger with NWA is going to be SO much better than our merger with UAL. It's going to be ugly no matter what. Will I be furloughed...maybe...maybe not. Will you be the gear bitch soon?......hopefully....hopefully so.

 

[General Lee]

Just fine sir. Thanks for all the concern. Somehow I knew you would be the first responder to this thread. Funny huh....

Come on man, relax a bit. Nobody knows what will happen. What's next, though? Cats kissing dogs? Southwest buying USAir? Crazy times....

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[ATRCA]

United has hubs in Chicago, Denver, Los Angeles, San Francisco and Washington, D.C., and flies to 117 destinations in 26 countries. The airline operates about 1,700 flights a day, or about 20 percent of all U.S. flights. It has the most extensive worldwide route structure of any airline.

My grandmother can order airplanes. You can't order the world's most extensive route structure.

Questions?

PIPE

Kidding right? You could have hubs in every city in the World and it wouldn't mean $hit if your airline was hemorrhaging cash and had no plan for returning to profitability. Sound familiar? UAL has been in very poor shape for some time now. Fact........UAL needs a merger. Why.............they are losing their a$$es and they need a bailout. PERIOD! CAL, not losing money, growing, adding capacity, ordering new A/C. Is UAL doing any of that? It's 2008, not the summer of 99. Get with the program, pick up a newspaper. United's in trouble, CAL is not.

So just to make sure I got u.....
1. United is a stronger airline than Continental? (Remember, we are talking about today, not 10 years ago)
2. Is United stronger than DAL also?

What am I missing. Weren't they in BK just a few months ago?

 

[IAHERJ]

Listen, I see what you are saying ATRCA. Heck we work at the same place. What he is saying is that United is one hell of a strong airline. You can be strong and still not run a great airline(ie lose money, have disgruntled employees). Imagine if UAL got it's act together tomorrow. It truly would be a stronger airline than Continental. Let's just hope combining the two(if we have to) will do just that down the road.

IAHERJ