Another aircraft order from CAL

[motch]

As a side note..
Great to see we are ordering more aircraft, both wide and narrow bodies. Hopefully they are for us and not a pre merger move to replace older UAL aircraft!

One thing I am worried about in a potential merger is scope and furloughs.

ALL MEC's need to INSIST that under no circumstances will fleet reduction due to a merger will result in furloughs while RJ feed increases. On top of that, all 70 seat jet flying needs to immeadiately stop at the level they are at.

There will be some mainline flying overlap but I do think there's more RJ overlap. That is the flying that needs to be replaced with mainline flying.

Always
Motch

 

[IAHERJ]

When they were hired in spring 05, what was their upgrade expectation?
When I was hired at United in 2000, there were guys getting to the left seat in less than 24 months. But there were a 2000 numbers between me and them; 20% of the company.
How many numbers are between the newest hire on property and the spring 05 hires?

Hasn't CAL had some left seat bids get cancelled since the age change?

Finally, if we're all lucky, no merger will take place. In which case, all of this will have riled up some people for no reason whatsoever. It's going to go by relative seniority, give or take a little bit with minimal fences. And everyone involved will complain for the rest of their careers about how they got screwed. Fun stuff.

Right now, the newest hire is about 1,220 numbers from the most junior captain at CAL. That's about 26% away from a left seat bid. You are right in your posts. Hopefully any merger will be a relative seniority type merger and we can all bitch for a while then focus on being a strong airine going forward. Obviously no merger is probably the best idea for all of us, especially a guy like me who missed CA on the last bid by 158 numbers.....

IAHERJ

 

[Andy]

Andy you are right he should not be worried about being furloughed after spending so many years and paying for his flight training out of his own pocket. Finally making to the majors is a major accomplishment and on top of that he gets to get furloughed over merger deals that will have no significant benefits for cal. You however have the opportunity to support your family through your military flying. He can have his concerns. Maybe instead of fighting each other we need to fight people like McCain and Bush who find it fit to allow our flying to be handed out like candy (open skies) and future foreign ownership. Get a grip i dont care if he is new he has more to lose than you.

meat, I haven't flown a military aircraft since 2002. It would be easier for ATRCA to fly in the military than me. And I have a daughter in college that I'm helping pay for - student loans and grants only cover part of the costs. So, no, he doesn't have more to lose than me.
And for that matter, you too could fly military aircraft in your spare time. Not that it's relevant to the discussion at hand.

 

[pipe]

The only reason you hear pilots talk of career expectations is because it is specifically mentioned in ALPA's integration policy. If it is completely impossible to estimate this variable and make an adjustment for it, why would ALPA specifically include it in its merger policy?

Okay. Estimate for me. It is Feb '86. Give me your best estimate of the career expectations of the last guy on the CAL list in Feb '86.

That's what I thought. Missed by a bit, didn't you? Well, that guy would have gotten screwed to the wall on the basis of that snapshot.

Why is it mentioned in ALPA policy? I don't know. Until they have a proven means to estimate it, it shouldn't be in there. The day that that the merger goes through, everyone is tied to the same anchor (CEO). At the moment of merger, everyone has the same career expectations. Relative seniority is the only way. If that doesn't work for you fine - take your best shot to block the merger. The fact is, if you think that the merger doesn't improve everyone's career expectations, then you should be trying to block it.

I think that pilots have gotten too conditioned to what has happened under the "watchful" eye of bankruptcy judges. The days of the cramdown are temporarily on hold (at least until McCain's swearing in). We can, and should, block mergers that don't improve everyone's career expectations. Guess what - if it doesn't improve your career expectations, in all likelihood it doesn't do anything for shareholder value. That is the key to blockage. No one gives a damn about your career, but if you can prove that it hurts shareholders, you may be able to stop it.

PIPE

 

[Furloughed80]

Okay. Estimate for me. It is Feb '86. Give me your best estimate of the career expectations of the last guy on the CAL list in Feb '86.

That's what I thought. Missed by a bit, didn't you? Well, that guy would have gotten screwed to the wall on the basis of that snapshot.

The longer the time-line, the more difficult an estimation of career expectations become. However, in 1986, one could project the career progression of a new-hire at CAL 5 years forward with reasonable accuracy. IMHO, relative seniority with an adjustment for career expectations would be fair in a CAL/UAL merger.

 

[Captain X]

Hey CAL GUYS ARE YOU COMING TO WALL STREET ON THE 12th? I EXPECT TO SEE YOU ALL THERE NO EXCUSES!

SIGN UP ON THE CAL ALPA WEBSITE

Yeah! And right after you do that, go cast a vote on the Merger Assessment!