Another aircraft order from CAL

[Cpt Oveur]

CAL ALPA is working hard with management to finish negotiations prior to year's end to have a new contract inked before the current one is said to 'expire.' They have significant hurdles to overcome before having work rules/compensation similar to that of Delta or United. What are the odds that management sells it to IAH while EWR, CLE, and GUM shoot it down, and it passes anyway?

Side note - American's 757s, the Rolls powered, not the ones from St Louis, have been ETOPS for years. BOS-MAN, and MIA to south america are the examples that come to mind. Year or two before CAL.

 

[pipe]

Where an airline was 20 yrs ago or even 10 yrs ago means nothing. Less than 10 yrs ago UAL was the $hit, had the best contract and was the place everyone wanted to be. It is not that now. Nothing about who they used to be can change where they find themselves now. CAL does not "need" a merger. Most analysts have stated that CAL is the strongest domestic airline and would do best alone. Flip side, Tilton has been talking about merger as a survival strategy for quite a while now.

United has hubs in Chicago, Denver, Los Angeles, San Francisco and Washington, D.C., and flies to 117 destinations in 26 countries. The airline operates about 1,700 flights a day, or about 20 percent of all U.S. flights. It has the most extensive worldwide route structure of any airline.

My grandmother can order airplanes. You can't order the world's most extensive route structure.

Questions?

PIPE

 

[nimtz]

Questions?

PIPE

Yes we forget Pipe's previously stated opinion, no INTERNATIONAL business traveler has ever heard of Continental...

Best Executive/Business Class
OAG Airline of the Year Awards (2003, 2004, 2005, 2006)

Continental Airlines is the world's fifth largest airline. Continental, together with Continental Express and Continental Connection, has more than 3,100 daily departures throughout the Americas, Europe and Asia, serving 144 domestic and 138 international destinations.

Questions or should this pointless koolaid war go on? Your high nose junk sounds like some former intern new hire in March '99...

 

[General Lee]

Amazing the General is always thumping his chest about Big D orders. Hrmm... new to you China MD-90's and 10 737-700's. New to you 757's that have etops (copying CAL again) and a couple 777's. Man your on a role... How do you play that into your NW bid?

Copying CAL, getting 757s with ETOPS? Should we not get aircraft that can go across the Atlantic to cities that may not fill a 767? We have a lot more widebodies across the Atlantic to Europe than you do, you know? Copying? What is this? The third grade? I guess getting 737-700s is also copying you, and Southwest.... I think we may still get MD90s if we merge with NWA. How are you going to do in a UAL merge?

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[IAHERJ]

Copying CAL, getting 757s with ETOPS? Should we not get aircraft that can go across the Atlantic to cities that may not fill a 767? We have a lot more widebodies across the Atlantic to Europe than you do, you know? Copying? What is this? The third grade? I guess getting 737-700s is also copying you, and Southwest.... I think we may still get MD90s if we merge with NWA. How are you going to do in a UAL merge?

Bye Bye--General Lee

Just fine sir. Thanks for all the concern. Somehow I knew you would be the first responder to this thread. Funny huh....

 

[IAHERJ]

United has hubs in Chicago, Denver, Los Angeles, San Francisco and Washington, D.C., and flies to 117 destinations in 26 countries. The airline operates about 1,700 flights a day, or about 20 percent of all U.S. flights. It has the most extensive worldwide route structure of any airline.

My grandmother can order airplanes. You can't order the world's most extensive route structure.

Questions?

PIPE

I agree with you 100%. With that being said, these aircraft will come and arrive quickly merger or no merger. I think, if done correctly; a Delta/Northwest and a United/Continental merger could make for a great career enhancement for future pilots in that it would leave this country with 3 mega carriers. They would be(in order): 1. United 2. Delta 3. American. With investment from Luftansa(United), Air France(Delta), and British Airways(American); you have the whole world pretty much linked together by 3 truly global networks. Job security would ultimately be greater down the road.

This doesn't mean that the next 5 years won't be messy as we clean up from these potentially messy mergers. It is going to get ugly before it starts to get better. I just think that long term we, as pilots will benefit from having these mergers take place now, rather than later. Just my .02

IAHERJ

 

[whatitdoing?]

General, I use to like you up to this point. Now i've come to the conclusion that you're just an a**. You actually think your merger with NWA is going to be SO much better than our merger with UAL. It's going to be ugly no matter what. Will I be furloughed...maybe...maybe not. Will you be the gear bitch soon?......hopefully....hopefully so.

 

[General Lee]

Just fine sir. Thanks for all the concern. Somehow I knew you would be the first responder to this thread. Funny huh....

Come on man, relax a bit. Nobody knows what will happen. What's next, though? Cats kissing dogs? Southwest buying USAir? Crazy times....

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[ATRCA]

United has hubs in Chicago, Denver, Los Angeles, San Francisco and Washington, D.C., and flies to 117 destinations in 26 countries. The airline operates about 1,700 flights a day, or about 20 percent of all U.S. flights. It has the most extensive worldwide route structure of any airline.

My grandmother can order airplanes. You can't order the world's most extensive route structure.

Questions?

PIPE

Kidding right? You could have hubs in every city in the World and it wouldn't mean $hit if your airline was hemorrhaging cash and had no plan for returning to profitability. Sound familiar? UAL has been in very poor shape for some time now. Fact........UAL needs a merger. Why.............they are losing their a$$es and they need a bailout. PERIOD! CAL, not losing money, growing, adding capacity, ordering new A/C. Is UAL doing any of that? It's 2008, not the summer of 99. Get with the program, pick up a newspaper. United's in trouble, CAL is not.

So just to make sure I got u.....
1. United is a stronger airline than Continental? (Remember, we are talking about today, not 10 years ago)
2. Is United stronger than DAL also?

What am I missing. Weren't they in BK just a few months ago?

 

[IAHERJ]

Listen, I see what you are saying ATRCA. Heck we work at the same place. What he is saying is that United is one hell of a strong airline. You can be strong and still not run a great airline(ie lose money, have disgruntled employees). Imagine if UAL got it's act together tomorrow. It truly would be a stronger airline than Continental. Let's just hope combining the two(if we have to) will do just that down the road.

IAHERJ

 

[justin15e]

You can't order the world's most extensive route structure.

PIPE

Be careful what you say "can't" be done. I believe that enough money can order just about anything, especially when United's CEO is just about begging for it...

For your sake, I hope you don't eat those words big fella.

 

[General Lee]

General, I use to like you up to this point. Now i've come to the conclusion that you're just an a**. You actually think your merger with NWA is going to be SO much better than our merger with UAL. It's going to be ugly no matter what. Will I be furloughed...maybe...maybe not. Will you be the gear bitch soon?......hopefully....hopefully so.

Huh? Come on now, I never said ours would be better than yours. They both will be troublesome. And, I am the gear bitch now, but there is a good chance I will be the left seater if it takes 6-8 months for DOJ review and we have another bid. If not, oh well, I will be there soon. I still have 22 more years to go you know.... Please don't hate me---don't be a playa hater...

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[120% Torque]

Questions or should this pointless koolaid war go on? Your high nose junk sounds like some former intern new hire in March '99...

OUCH! Dont forget about the other "stacks" for applications. Interns was only one.

 

[Ex737Driver]

Staple, staple, staple, staple, staple, staple, staple, staple, staple, staple, staple, staple, staple, staple, staple.......................

I'm sorry...........did I say that out loud.....again?

Look, a merger NEVER assures a company's success. Bigger is not always better. Intergration is never easy. There are so many things wrong with ANY combination that NO ONE should be looking towards a merger. Have we not learned from the past? I would hope that both DAL/NWA mec's are stalling to enusre that a merger NEVER occurs.

If any more proof is needed, just look across the isle at USAIR and AWA.

 

[CAL EWR B737]

Hey CAL GUYS ARE YOU COMING TO WALL STREET ON THE 12th? I EXPECT TO SEE YOU ALL THERE NO EXCUSES!

SIGN UP ON THE CAL ALPA WEBSITE

 

[Furloughed80]

I hear some of these 777s might be -300s. This is definitely good news for CAL. 111 new Boeings to be delivered over the next 6 years!

 

[pipe]

Be careful what you say "can't" be done. I believe that enough money can order just about anything, especially when United's CEO is just about begging for it...

For your sake, I hope you don't eat those words big fella.

For my sake? Yeah, I fly the MD-11 at UAL. A lot of people aren't familiar with the UAL MD-11 operation.

See my earlier thread about career expectations. My point is that comparing corporate pemis size and then equating it to your career expectation is crap. Meaningless. Pointless.

But, the next time I'm looking for airline insight I'll be sure to find a 1900 hr Eagle driver to talk it over with. (No offense to Albie though. He does know of what he speaks)

PIPE

 

[Andy]

CAL pilots career expectations?
1. 3-5 yr upgrade
2. New A/C
3. New cities
4. Movement

UAL pilots career expectations?
1. 10 yr upgrade
2. Few deliveries
3. Stagnation
4. Shrinking capacity

Relative seniority is justified, anything else would be an undue windfall for the UAL folks. Fences should be in place. I am sure the UAL folks will want to protect the -400 along with DEN, SFO.........I don't blame them. Sound fair to me. I just can't see how anyone could articulate an advantaged position for the UAL pilots. This without even mentioning the financial position of UAL compared to CAL. Completely different worlds at the moment.

ATRCA, hold your ammo. All you're doing is dumping a ton of poison in the well, which will result in dividing the two pilot groups and accomplish exactly ZERO.

As for financial positions, taking on a lot of debt when the economy's going into a recession is exactly what got UAL in trouble.

 

[Andy]

ATRCA, I figured that you were a newbie at CAL. http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?p=1430591#post1430591

Your posts remind me of that ******************************bag flylow22 when USAir was in merger mode with UAL.

Stop feeding the flames of dissent.

 

[oldguy]

I got news for you. Every pilot hired at every airline (with a very few exceptions) has been told 3-5 year upgrade. Actually happens about 5-10% of the time. In fact, I'm on my 4th airline and was told as little as one year but never more than five. If you think that is a legitimate expectation you're very new to this.

Oh yeah, you may upgrade in 3-5. Then downgrade. Then upgrade. Then sit reserve for six years. Then, voila! After more like 10 years you REALLY upgraded.

PIPE

You are right... When I went to Chautauqua I was told I'd upgrade in 2 years. Turns out it was a year and 11 months.

Career expectations ARE real and not that financial positions can't change. But... It is unfair for a pilot at UAL to benefit from CAL's current $$ position, fleet renewal, and good management. You cannot argue against that.

I say that with all due respect to the UAL pilots. If they had a better system right now I'd just be happy to be getting under their umbrella. Not saying it should be a staple or anything but there should be some accomadation made.

My piece,

Oldguy