Annapolis the movie?

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Didn't take long for this thread to turn into a my Jet blast is bigger, badder than yours....

So much Type A, some much testosterone... Where is a calm cool female B-52 pilot who can do needlepoint while delivering nukes when we need one....

Whether we like it or not, we are counting on guys like you to save us from the world...

 

[AD SUPT Hopeful]

Damn. We were doing so good for a while. I guess we'll have to once again suffer through Dave's ignorance.

 

[DaveGriffin]

Dave, it's better to keep your trap shut and have everyone think you're an idiot than to open your man-pleaser and confirm it.

Ask Yeager and all those dudes who flew the century-series fighters how safe it was. Further, I like my Hog bros, but I don't think anyone "reveres" them. And it's painfully obvious you know very little about modern CAS operations wrt to the USAF.

Magnum;

Yeager was a different breed from the current-day AF 'reduce risk at all costs'. It would be great if we saw his type again today. Too bad his type in your leadership structure is gone.

Don't delude yourself. Reassigning the A-10's mission to the F-16 is a major mistake. Ask any Grunt on the ground what has the greatest effect on the bad guys: a Hog screaming in at treetop with the DU guns roaring or a prima donna F-16 puke releasing a JDAM from stand-off. Regardless of your desire to be a hot sh*t CAS guy, you can never provide the same level of support as the A-10.

The Gunships and their crews are great. There just aren't enough of them.

The AF Pukes are too focused on air superiority and dropping bombs from 30,000 ft. The war is on the ground.

P.S. When I said the Hog pilots were 'revered', I meant by the guys on the grond, not by Pukes in F-16s.

 

[stonewall]

Magnum;

Yeager was a different breed from the current-day AF 'reduce risk at all costs'. It would be great if we saw his type again today. Too bad his type in your leadership structure is gone.

Don't delude yourself. Reassigning the A-10's mission to the F-16 is a major mistake. Ask any Grunt on the ground what has the greatest effect on the bad guys: a Hog screaming in at treetop with the DU guns roaring or a prima donna F-16 puke releasing a JDAM from stand-off. Regardless of your desire to be a hot sh*t CAS guy, you can never provide the same level of support as the A-10.

The Gunships and their crews are great. There just aren't enough of them.

The AF Pukes are too focused on air superiority and dropping bombs from 30,000 ft. The war is on the ground.

P.S. When I said the Hog pilots were 'revered', I meant by the guys on the grond, not by Pukes in F-16s.

Hey Navy Puke, I'm a big fan of the A-10. However, based on some of your observations, I think you don't really understand how CAS is done these days.

A JDAM does more damage than a 30mm round, no way to dispute that. A 500lb LGB does more damage than a 30mm round. An AGM-65 does more damage than a 30mm round. I spent 3.5 years doing Operational Test on active duty. I can assure you we are not more focused on air SUPREMACY than on dropping bombs (from all altitudes, by the way). We don't have to focus on air-to-air...we own it. The focus on all future combat ops for the USAF is air-to-ground. Why do you think we slapped JDAMs on the Raptor?

Prima Donnas? In the F-16? Do you know any F-16 pilots? Ever worked with 'em? Flown with 'em? I'm all for giving other platforms sh*t, but I think you actually mean some of this stuff, and I think you actually believe it.

There are missions for the Hog and for the Viper. And while the GAU-8 is a great tool, the A-10 employs more effective CAS weapons.

 

[jagmagic]

Not that bad

 

[Andy]

Andy;

I know we are all thankful that you and the 'reduce risk at all costs' AF Puke decision making process was not the prevailing mentality when we were engaged in critical but dangerous endeavors such as the development of Naval Carrier capabilities pre-WWII, the Apollo space program or any time we have had to make difficult decisions knowing that there was a chance that some of our guys/gals might not come back.

That's why your great and revered Hog drivers have been all but been abandoned by the AF, CAS is too dirty and too dangerous. That's why the weak-sister air superiority guys who run the AF don't like getting below 10,000 AGL, when things get a little too dicey for them.

Dave, I don't make up stories of being a Navy Seal with multiple carrier landings. I know what I've done in my flying career, and while it may be mundane to those that really (not made up) have fighter time, nonetheless, I am proud of what I've done. You, on the other hand, must have such a miserable life that you have to make up stories.
I don't for a minute think that an ex-Navy Seal or Carrier Qual'd Pilot would berate others in the manner that you do.

As for getting below 10K ft, been there, done that. I used to love flying low levels on the Rio Grande. As a T-38IP, I can recall (not a made up DaveGriffin story) flying ballz to the wall with another IP through a canyon where we could feel the vibration of the engines bouncing off of the floor. Bert, if you're out there, PM me. Are you going back to UAL when recalled? Your time's coming soon - #8033 is around the corner.
Or the time I was flying the Combat Sent on an operation mission off the coast of a very unfriendly country. The tac coordinator called for a spiral dive. My question- bank limitation? His answer- as much as you can handle. 82 degrees later, we were in an idle descent within all aircraft tolerances (top rudder works wonders in controlling airspeed). Passing 10,000, I slowly reduced bank angle so that we were wings level at 2000 ft. I didn't want to scare 'em too bad, but would've loved to take it down another 1500 feet. The next day, my co topped me with 87 degrees; he executed it flawlessly. The tac coordinator never asked for another tactical descent on that deployment. And yes, the co outflew me.

My stories ain't $hit, but they're real. I don't need to make 'em up. I don't read military aviation novels and then in some twisted DaveGriffin manner think that I was there. You need help.

 

[Gorilla]

It seems that the AF CAS mission has changed over the years, from support of troops in close contact, into FEBA interdiction, due to the general horror of the inevitable friendly fire casualties from close support without PGM's.

During the gulf war, the A-10 did great work, the vast majority of it, though, far from troops in contact. FEBA interdiction can be defined as destruction of inbound enemy ground forces 5 to 20 miles from friendlies, and this pretty much ensures FF accidents don't happen. The WW2-style vision of fighter-bombers roaring in to save the day, as in Saving Private Ryan, is pretty much gone. The Apache and the Harrier, as well as quick response artillery, fulfills the role much better.

AF air-mud power is best illustrated by the Basra road of death during the first gulf war. With no friendly forces in the vicinity, it was an unbelievably brutal massacre. I had an A-10 buddy who lost count of the number of armored vehicles he destroyed, the vast majority of them with mavericks, not the gun.

JDAM, LGB's, and missiles in general are better weapons than the GAU-8. The Army and the Marines for years have desired their own air-arm devoted to the CAS mission. I'd say, if they want it that bad, let them have it.

 

[AD SUPT Hopeful]

JDAM, LGB's, and missiles in general are better weapons than the GAU-8.

Lets not forget about the 105mm.

 

[V-STALL]

How bad is this going to be??

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0417433/

It sucked! :uzi:

 

[malterf15]

Jesus, Andy...felt the engines of a 38 off the ground in a canyon? I've been in that canyon in a 38, and if you felt that, you were f---ing up. And if you were that "good" in whatever you were flying at 82 degrees, you should have been a BUFF pilot. You could have done airshows.
Don't try to shut down guys that don't seem to have a clue like Dave with real life heroic stories that show you don't have flight discipline.

 

[RGR275]

Magnum;

Yeager was a different breed from the current-day AF 'reduce risk at all costs'. It would be great if we saw his type again today. Too bad his type in your leadership structure is gone.

Don't delude yourself. Reassigning the A-10's mission to the F-16 is a major mistake. Ask any Grunt on the ground what has the greatest effect on the bad guys: a Hog screaming in at treetop with the DU guns roaring or a prima donna F-16 puke releasing a JDAM from stand-off. Regardless of your desire to be a hot sh*t CAS guy, you can never provide the same level of support as the A-10.

The Gunships and their crews are great. There just aren't enough of them.

The AF Pukes are too focused on air superiority and dropping bombs from 30,000 ft. The war is on the ground.

P.S. When I said the Hog pilots were 'revered', I meant by the guys on the grond, not by Pukes in F-16s.

Most "operators" I got to work with were very quiet reserved guys that kept the mouth shut when they didn't know what they were talking about. I only met a few loud and arrogant types, but they generally knew WTF they were speaking about.

I've been on the line as a Grunt and have had the wonderful men and women put steel on target many a time so I wouldn't go from frying pan to fire. I don't know strategic or tactical air doctrine, but I do know that we Grunts couldn't do our jobs without the aircrews and wars wouldn't be won without the Grunts. The boots on the ground take and hold soil; that means a lot more than a jet over head. However our roles are integral; hence everything is now joint.

Do I think the military is being pussified? Yes I do, but I also know that there will always be those with BIG BRASS ONES that set the example, do the right thing and piss off the pu$$ies. Anyone that has ever worn a uniform knows that.

I have some interesting personal accounts of A-10s, F-15E, F-16s, F/A-18s, AH-1W, AH-64A/D and even the FAST FAC F-14s overhead doing great work. Some even to save my buddies and I. I don't care what it is, a DU from a 20mm or 30mm will kill someone just as dead as a JDAM. All I ask is that the pilot knows how best to employ his/her systems. They've all been great thus far. I will say that AC-130 has the best fireworks display.

I will say with a fair amount of certainty that you, Dave, were never a Grunt and never knew the hardships, misery and great joy that it is to be the Grunt. I am trading my boots for wings and will miss them dearly, but it's time to move to a different part of the battlefield.

Happy and Safe flying to you all, thanks for saving my arse many a time and RLTW!

I'll leave y'all to figure out what unit I was with and with what service.

 

[Andy]

Jesus, Andy...felt the engines of a 38 off the ground in a canyon? I've been in that canyon in a 38, and if you felt that, you were f---ing up. And if you were that "good" in whatever you were flying at 82 degrees, you should have been a BUFF pilot. You could have done airshows.
Don't try to shut down guys that don't seem to have a clue like Dave with real life heroic stories that show you don't have flight discipline.

The T-38 ride was definitely busting flight discipline, no question there. Most of us were young and stupid at least once. Old and stupid is a different story.
The 82 degree bank was within all flight regs. At KC-135/B-52 instructor school, they used to have a demo flown by the IPs where they remained in the contact position in 90 degrees of bank.

 

[SIG600]

At KC-135/B-52 instructor school, they used to have a demo flown by the IPs where they remained in the contact position in 90 degrees of bank.

WOW!!!!! Got any pics of THAT?!?!?!

 

[Deuce130]

The 82 degree bank was within all flight regs. At KC-135/B-52 instructor school, they used to have a demo flown by the IPs where they remained in the contact position in 90 degrees of bank.

What was your descent rate while you were doing that?? I'm sorely tempted to call bullsh*it on this one. Got plenty of time on the boom and I can't imagine 90 o' bank during AR ops, no matter what you're flying. Especially if one's a BUFF and the other's a SLUFF. If you did it, I'd like some others to verify this one.

 

[Deuce130]

After two more beers and some more thought, I'm definitely calling BS. There's no way that happened. Your VVI would be off the charts negative and I don't think either plane could pull enough g's to sustain any kind of contact position whatsoever. No way. And you'd have to be in idle or you'd be at Vne in no time. Anyone here try to fly close formation with lead in idle?