Annapolis the movie?

[Gorilla]

At 90 degrees of bank, basically zero lift, both AC would be heading downhill ballistic. Airspeed would exceed red line pretty quickly. You might be able to roll and "touch" 90 degrees, but to hold it there would be truly impossible. I'm tending to side with Deuce on this one... it sounds insane.

 

[CobraKai]

The BUFF and -135s did use to do Wifferdels(sp?) in contact at Castle, I have a photo from the pod as the cover of a CD full of chart data, sorry no electric. I am sure if someone looks hard enough they could find it online. It was an IP demo thing and yes they got close to 90*, not sustained, think about the same manuver in the tweet, if it is done right you will not fall out of the sky past redline. Find an old water injection A model guy and he will probably be able to tell you about it. For the -135 guys next time you are in the sim ask one of the flight safety guys, as most of them are old Water Jet guys.

 

[Deuce130]

I'm sure any aircraft can do a wifferdill properly, as long as you recover correctly you can manage your airspeed. Any aircraft do up to 90 degrees of bank momentarily, but in contact with a tanker or with someone on the boom? No way.

 

[DHPope93]

It's Legit

Sorry, no BS. I was a CFIC IP and talked to several CFIC IPs/INs/IBs and Buff pilots who did such a thing, in contact, when both programs were at Castle. Anybody at Altus or Barkesdale with access to the photos?

Peace,
DP

 

[Merlin'05]

I'm on casual status in a Tanker Squadron at Altus right now. When people first told me this, I said BS.

I asked a number of other pilots and booms in the squadron, some who have been around a LONG time flying the tankers, and they all said it was true. I still said BS to them.

Sure enough, I saw a picture a few days later. It was a tiny picture in the corner of a room. The picture was taken from the boom position with a B-52 connected. It wasn't just close, it was connected.

While not nearly 90 degrees--not even remotely close--it was AT LEAST 60. Take the 90 degrees as a tanker wide fish story--it did happen, but not that big. 60 degrees is still pretty hardcore with a -135 and Buff in contact, especially with the BUFFs roll control. I haven't heard if the tanker and receiver went into the bank before or after contact, but either way must have been killer for the reciever.

I've never seen a digital picture before. I might try and find it again and see if I can take a picture with my digital camera.

EDIT: So I gotta eat crow on this one, see below for more...

 

[bobs98tlr]

WOW!!!!! Got any pics of THAT?!?!?!

Im way to lazy at 4:30am to look them up for you...but do a search on airliners.net in the forums and you'll find a couple guys posted pictures...its freaking SWEET looking at a Buff from the KC-135 pod in a 90* bank..



BTW: the movie.....SUCKED....Totally not how the Naval Academy is....oh well, thats hollywood. Cheap shoting an Officer and getting away with it? HAHA...right...But a VERY good looking girl in the movie...WOW. Whats her name anyways, ive seen her a few times and DANG.....shes a keeper..haha.

 

[Gorilla]

I'm assuming that these extreme bank angles were not sustained in the sense that there is no attempt to maintain altitude. A sustained high bank angle turn would require G-loads beyond the airframe, and power that's not available on a BUFF or tanker.

So what's the deal? Are they jacking the nose up a bit, rolling into a steep turn, easing up on the G, and simply letting the nose drop, then rolling out? Sounds pretty wild.

 

[Tweetdrvr]

Just imagine a big Lazy 8, once the receiver is on the boom, it doesn't matter what the tanker does. The receiver is totally focused on the director lights and all the other visual references required to maintain position. So if the tanker adds power or lowers the nose to gain speed, the receiver just follows. The tanker just pulls up into a big lazy eight,the only difference from the civil PTS is they use more pitch (20-ish degrees) at the 45 degree point and more bank (approx 90 degrees). Done properly, the whole thing never exceeds 1.5 Gs and mostly all at 1 G.

This is how my B-52 Aircraft Commander explained it to me back in my previous life as an EWO. For all the AF guys, it is just like doing wingwork or close trail in a T-37/38/6.

Hope this helps.

 

[ColKurtz]

Most "operators" I got to work with were very quiet reserved guys that kept the mouth shut when they didn't know what they were talking about. I only met a few loud and arrogant types, but they generally knew WTF they were speaking about.

I've been on the line as a Grunt and have had the wonderful men and women put steel on target many a time so I wouldn't go from frying pan to fire. I don't know strategic or tactical air doctrine, but I do know that we Grunts couldn't do our jobs without the aircrews and wars wouldn't be won without the Grunts. The boots on the ground take and hold soil; that means a lot more than a jet over head. However our roles are integral; hence everything is now joint.

Do I think the military is being pussified? Yes I do, but I also know that there will always be those with BIG BRASS ONES that set the example, do the right thing and piss off the pu$$ies. Anyone that has ever worn a uniform knows that.

I have some interesting personal accounts of A-10s, F-15E, F-16s, F/A-18s, AH-1W, AH-64A/D and even the FAST FAC F-14s overhead doing great work. Some even to save my buddies and I. I don't care what it is, a DU from a 20mm or 30mm will kill someone just as dead as a JDAM. All I ask is that the pilot knows how best to employ his/her systems. They've all been great thus far. I will say that AC-130 has the best fireworks display.

I will say with a fair amount of certainty that you, Dave, were never a Grunt and never knew the hardships, misery and great joy that it is to be the Grunt. I am trading my boots for wings and will miss them dearly, but it's time to move to a different part of the battlefield.

Happy and Safe flying to you all, thanks for saving my arse many a time and RLTW!

I'll leave y'all to figure out what unit I was with and with what service.

Good luck Bro!!

 

[Cokie907]

Getting back on topic here......I received an email from the alumni association 2 weeks ago regarding the movie "Annapolis".

Here is an excerpt for those that are not TOO busy slinging testosterone! lol

"This movie did not receive the Academy's support because the advance scripts that were reviewed in 2004 did not realistically portray the Naval Academy or how the Academy develops and trains future Navy and Marine Corps officers. Early in this project, the Academy offered suggestions for ways the script could realistically portray Academy life, its mission and the midshipmen. The Academy provided research, facilitated visits to the Academy, afforded contact with midshipmen, and provided extensive script notes to the producers. Their objective was to help the film-makers develop a script that could receive official support. Ultimately, the film-makers made the decision to shoot the film elsewhere and forego further contact with the Naval Academy."

From what I gather, USNA was willing to allow filming inside the "yard" but when they wanted to change some of the falsehoods in the script, the fine "traditionalists" in Hollywood refused and decided to do their filming up in Philadelphia instead.

Bottom line, the movie is complete bull$hit and I would avoid paying 8.50 to see it at the theater. Just wait a few months for the DVD/video.

Sean Plankey
USNA '88

 

[Andy]

While not nearly 90 degrees--not even remotely close--it was AT LEAST 60. Take the 90 degrees as a tanker wide fish story--it did happen, but not that big. 60 degrees is still pretty hardcore with a -135 and Buff in contact, especially with the BUFFs roll control. I haven't heard if the tanker and receiver went into the bank before or after contact, but either way must have been killer for the reciever.

There are photos in contact at 90 degrees. I don't have one, but they are out there.
But if you like, it's all BS. Just like that fish story about Tex Johnston rolling a KC-135. Heavies can't exceed 30 degrees of bank without falling out of the sky.

 

[Merlin'05]

There are photos in contact at 90 degrees. I don't have one, but they are out there.
But if you like, it's all BS. Just like that fish story about Tex Johnston rolling a KC-135. Heavies can't exceed 30 degrees of bank without falling out of the sky.

Yes, I must eat crow on this one. I was mistaken. A couple hours before reading this (I just got home), I had some people describe the maneuver in better detail. What I thought happened during the maneuver and what really happened were two different things, and the picture I saw at 70 degrees and thought that was the extent was also not the whole picture.

So, yes, they did go 90 degrees. :0

 

[LJDRVR]

Here are some photos:

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2006-1/1140646/ei8k14.jpg

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2006-1/1140646/whif.jpg

 

[talondriver]

This is how my B-52 Aircraft Commander explained it to me back in my previous life as an EWO. For all the AF guys, it is just like doing wingwork or close trail in a T-37/38/6.

Kind of...but not really. AR in the BUFF was different (I'm sure the other heavy dudes that refueled can attest) because of the wingspan. We had to fight the tendency to get into a lateral PIO due to the wing vortices from the tanker banging down on our wings. If you got off to a side, the vortices would push you the other way which could lead to some over-correcting.

I guess "Annapolis" sucked. Thanks for the intel.