Anderson to align capacity with demand

[AlbieF15]

Fins/Mike707,

If things do go south and furloughs happen, with the new seniority list what kind of dates of hire are you looking at with 200/400/600/1000 pilots? I've got several friends that are pre 9/11 hires, and few more recent ones as well.

 

[~~~^~~~]

So is the most confusing day for you "father's day"? I mean after all, you must really hide some major resentment towards Delta pilots since 6 of them ganged your mom causing your birth!

That's not saying much for Delta pilots. Are you sure it wasn't someone on the top end of the Mesa list who said they flew for Delta? It can get really confusing. :laugh:

Spiky Hair Pilot: I fly for Skywest. We are a subsidiary of SkyWest holdings that performs Delta and United flying that we took from, Altlantic Southeast which is our subsidiary and Freedom, a subsidiary of Mesa Airlines and some of our airplanes came from Independence Airlines, that used to be ACA. But now Shuttle America does that flying. They are a subsidiary of Republic Airlines Holdings, but their airplanes come from Mid Atlantic which was a US Air group, that once went by Brickyard.
Cougar / MILF: Huh? You got anymore of that Sutter Home or that Boone's Farm? Tastes like the fruit juice in my kids sippy cups... giggle
Spiky Hair Pilot: Yeah, grunt
Cougar / MILF: You wear the weirdest underwear
Spkiy Hair Pilot: Don't touch my Garmies
Cougar / MILF: So you fly for Southwest? I used to know some of their pilots too - giggle with a snort - 'excuse me
Spiky Hair Pilot: No, S k y - West
Cougar / MILF: I thought you said United?
Spiky Hair'd Pilot: I mean't Delta
Cougar / MILF: Your hair doesn't look like a Marine's, but OK

 

[ACL65PILOT]

ACL,

Excuse me for not paying attention, but I was under the impression that if the airline furloughs anybody ALL 76 seaters lose chairs.

Correct me if I'm wrong.....I hope I'm not for our 07 08 people.

The short answer is no. Here is what the LOA states.

Section 1 B. 40. d. and e. of the Joint Collective Bargaining Agreement (the PWA currently in effect) reads as follows:
40. “Permitted aircraft type” means: . . .
d. one of up to 120 jet aircraft configured with 71-76 passenger seats and certificated in the United States with a maximum gross takeoff weight of 86,000 pounds or less (“76-seat jets”). The number of 76-seat jets may be increased above 120 by three 76-seat jets for each aircraft above the number of aircraft in the baseline fleet operated by the Company (in service, undergoing maintenance and operational spares) as of CBAID. The baseline fleet number will be 440+N, in which N is the number of aircraft (in service, undergoing maintenance and operational spares but not including permitted aircraft types) added to the Company’s baseline fleet from NWA. The number and type of all aircraft in the Company’s fleet on CBAID will be provided to the Association. The number of 70-seat jets plus 76-seat jets permitted by Section 1 B. 40. may not exceed 255.
Exception: Up to the 36 EMB-175s that were operated and/or ordered by Northwest prior to CBAID may continue to be operated with up to a maximum gross takeoff weight of 89,000 pounds.
e. once the number of permitted 76-seat jets is established, it will not be reduced.
Exception one: If a pilot on the seniority list with an employment date prior to September 1, 2001 is placed on furlough, the Company will convert all 76-seat jets for operation as 70-seat jets.
Exception two: In the event the flow provisions of NWA LOA 2006-10 and LOA 2006-14 cease to be available, either at the feeder carrier affiliate referenced in such LOAs or at another carrier, the number of jet aircraft configured with 71-76 passenger seats specified in Section 1 B. 40. d. will revert to 85.

The Company will agree to the Association’s interpretation of Section 1 B. 40. d. and e. but provides a one-time exception to this interpretation allowing the Company to operate up to 153* 76-seat jets so long as the Company does not furlough any pilot on the integrated system seniority list as of February 9, 2009, the date the agreement was signed. With agreement on the interpretation of Section 1 B. 40. d. and e, any further increase above 153 76-seat jets will require substantial mainline fleet growth. For example, for the Company to add a 154th 76-seat jet, the mainline would have to be comprised of 768 mainline jets. Today the mainline fleet consists of 753 aircraft.
•
If the Company does furlough any pilot on the Integrated System Seniority List, then the Company will physically remove six passenger seats from the number of 76-seat jets (in service, undergoing maintenance and operational spares) that exceeds the authorized number of 76-seat jets under the Association’s interpretation of Section 1 B. 40. d. and e.
•
While the Company will have 90 days from the first furlough to physically remove the seats, such seats will become immediately unusable for any purpose upon the furlough of the very first pilot on the list.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Fins/Mike707,

If things do go south and furloughs happen, with the new seniority list what kind of dates of hire are you looking at with 200/400/600/1000 pilots? I've got several friends that are pre 9/11 hires, and few more recent ones as well.

To get to the most junior NWA pre 9-11 hire you would need to furlough over 400 pilot off the bottom of the combined list.

 

[~~~^~~~]

Fins/Mike707,

If things do go south and furloughs happen, with the new seniority list what kind of dates of hire are you looking at with 200/400/600/1000 pilots? I've got several friends that are pre 9/11 hires, and few more recent ones as well.

That really depends on which scenario takes place. Do you mean NWA side, Delta side or combined? The lists we have now do not include Date of Hire to avoid just these sorts of comparisons and the lists made immediately after the merger are no longer completely accurate.

One theory going around is a furlough prior to SOC off just the Delta side for practical reasons (as NWA equipment is being used to backfill Delta flying the NWA side is understaffed) and to avoid some of the more onerous scope provisions that trigger off the 9/1/2001 DOH (which is more senior on the Delta side). The really ugly part of that would be that the hundreds of NWA pilots on furlough bypass would be recalled before most of the Delta pilots.

In other words the first Delta pilot furloughed would be about the 250th to be recalled.

Albie, I think the answer to your question, very roughly, would be from the bottom, 800 are 2007 and later hires. 1,100 to 800 are the 2000 to 2001 guys.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

That really depends on which scenario takes place. Do you mean NWA side, Delta side or combined? The lists we have now do not include Date of Hire to avoid just these sorts of comparisons and the lists made immediately after the merger are no longer completely accurate.

One theory going around is a furlough prior to SOC off just the Delta side for practical reasons (as NWA equipment is being used to back fill D

As much as I hate to agree with you. I can see them doing this if there is no other choice.
It would be ugly but it would get the job done.

The other theory is that they would put NWA flying on DAL jets to even that out, and in the end taking from the bottom of the list.
As always politics are ugly.

 

[Superpilot92]

Days of our Delta Lives, the new reality show. We're worse than a bunch of highschool cheerleaders with all this drama.

There is still a lot that has to happen before the company's going to drop the hammer. We'll see

 

[~~~^~~~]

Yeah ... . official word is that "there will be no furloughs, but that's not official, anything could happen."

 

[Superpilot92]

True - and a bunch of high school cheerleaders would be a lot more fun. But, don't they put guys like me in jail for that? If not, I've got to go buy one of those new Camaros.

For the sake of argument, we'll change the discussion to college cheerleaders You don't need a camaro, just get a GTO and you'll be set See my avatar for details, they seem to just cling to the car but beware, you'll need to bring a broomstick with you to beat them off during the summer :beer:

 

[~~~^~~~]

You're kidding... that's not really your (ahem) car, is it? I've always respected you, but now you are up there with my other hero - Smiling Bob.

 

[FBN0223]

And to top it off, our DL MEC also represents a group of non-Delta pilots. So we'll get to go through the trials and tribulations involved with displacements and furloughs while also keeping in mind what's best for a the Compass guys and gals.

 

[~~~^~~~]

What? You're kidding right?

Our MEC blows off the bottom 1/3rd the list. What make you think they'd listen to the bottom 0.024 who are not even on the list, who are split amongst three bases?

 

[Superpilot92]

You're kidding... that's not really your (ahem) car, is it? I've always respected you, but now you are up there with my other hero - Smiling Bob.

Wait a minute!! There's a car in that picture?????

:beer:

 

[EWR_FO]

Which is what might happen to you coming up here thanks to bad hedges. Just wait until you merge with United, and you will see what type of losses occur during mergers.


Bye Bye--General Lee

You do understand how the hedging process works, right? If you don't exercise the right, you lose the money you spent for the right to buy the commodity. It appears you think you are locked into purchasing ALL your needs at whatever price the contract was. Losing billions due to fuel hedging, or lack thereof, is a mathematical impossibility, do the math.

If a merger with United made sense, it would have been already done. One of the big reasons for Continental's success was the fact that Bethune streamlined it down to three aircraft types, NONE of which are compatible with United due to the type of engines they have. The more aircraft types you have, the more you spend- whether they are paid for or not. When you cut through all the bull**it and actually look at the facts, if it doesn't look like easy money to do a merger, the money guys won't go. If you actually think that the management of Delta/NW would leave money behind because they felt bad about the employees, you are smoking crack. Leo Mullin's famous quote from Super Bowl Sunday sums it up, "You mean this deal fell apart over labor?" He was incredulous that a bunch of piss ant hourly workers screwed up his payday.

I'm no fan of Continental management but at least you can say they have a track record, the jury is still out on the management of Delta/NW. One of my best friends is a NW A330 FO so I genuinely hope everything works out, he doesn't sound overly impressed so far.

 

[FBN0223]

What? You're kidding right?

Our MEC blows off the bottom 1/3rd the list. What make you think they'd listen to the bottom 0.024 who are not even on the list, who are split amongst three bases?

So why represent Compass at all. Am I out to lunch or should the DL ALPA just represent Delta pilots?