AMR also believes that the west pilots case is ripe!

[abefly]

The snap shot will be when the merger was announced. Delta hired a few hundred pilots after the merger was announced, and all of them were stapled to the bottom by the arbitrators. (NWA wasn't hiring at the time)


Bye Bye---General Lee

So where does an American or Us Air pilot on furlough who bypassed go on the SLI? How can an active pilot be junior to a furloughed pilot. This will be an interesting one.

 

[General Lee]

So where does an American or Us Air pilot on furlough who bypassed go on the SLI? How can an active pilot be junior to a furloughed pilot. This will be an interesting one.

They will still retain seniority to people below them who did return from furlough. I don't think you can jump up seniority within your own list. Ummm no.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[pave driver]

The snapshot will be the POR date not the announcement date.

The East /West seniority issue willl be solved before then by the court.

As far as the US Air/ American seniority that will start after the JCBA is complete. I hear they are almost done with that. It requires no pilot voting.

My prediction is the East will be dissapointed by Judge Silver (but they knew it was coming someday, delay has been their tactic).

Both East and West will be dissapointed in the next SLI. When USAPA goes in screaming DOH they will be laughed out of the room. Thank god the west's merger attorneys get to present at the M/B arbitraion as well. The USAPA idiots can't do anything. What a waste of 2.45% of my income.

I agree - it is a waste of 2.45 (soon to be 1%). The SLI will not be according to DOH.

 

[pave driver]

So where does an American or Us Air pilot on furlough who bypassed go on the SLI? How can an active pilot be junior to a furloughed pilot. This will be an interesting one.

If a pilot chooses to bypass, they will go below active pilots.

 

[Wingman10]

If a pilot chooses to bypass, they will go below active pilots.

Is that true? What happens when they decide to cancel their defer status and return, do they return to where their seniority holds.

That is the way it is currently, how could they go below active pilot's.

Just curious as to how that works

 

[TWA Dude]

Nobody knows how it will work. To my knowledge this particular situation is unprecedented. And I will be affected.

 

[General Lee]

If a pilot chooses to bypass, they will go below active pilots.

I don't think that is correct. What if you are out on medical or military leave?


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[TWA Dude]

Gen: the Mil guys are accepting recall and going into immediate leave.

The med guys can't accept recall without a valid medical.

 

[Metrojet]

That's fine, but the NIC award would be grandfathered in for sure. It's tough to avoid a binding award, and the Easties will figure that out soon. After that is cleared up, then the snap shot will be looked at by the next panel of arbitrators.


Bye Bye---General Lee

I will try and make this simple - have you ever signed a contract that had an addendum ? You have to sign the contract AND the addendum for the contract to be legally binding. If you don't sign the addendum, then you can't enforce the contract. IE - if there is no joint cba - then everything else is void. No TA NO NIC

With the MOU - there is an new agreement that will lead to a new SLI with a new contract. The MOU is not a j cba - I know every West pilot thinks we now have a contract. If we do, then why are we not operating on it after the por? Because we need a j cba that will have a new SLI.

Metrojet

 

[TWA Dude]

The MOU is not a j cba - I know every West pilot thinks we now have a contract. If we do, then why are we not operating on it after the por?

The MOU is indeed active as of the POR. Can't imagine why you think otherwise. Hint: the MOU payrates become effective at POR and we get the retro pay.

 

[vetrider]

The MOU is indeed active as of the POR. Can't imagine why you think otherwise. Hint: the MOU payrates become effective at POR and we get the retro pay.

He can't help it, he probably went to a usapa road show back east.

 

[General Lee]

I will try and make this simple - have you ever signed a contract that had an addendum ? You have to sign the contract AND the addendum for the contract to be legally binding. If you don't sign the addendum, then you can't enforce the contract. IE - if there is no joint cba - then everything else is void. No TA NO NIC

With the MOU - there is an new agreement that will lead to a new SLI with a new contract. The MOU is not a j cba - I know every West pilot thinks we now have a contract. If we do, then why are we not operating on it after the por? Because we need a j cba that will have a new SLI.

Metrojet

No, according to my Westie buddies, your USAPA leader stated the MOU had NOTHING to do with the SLI, hence the 98% Yes vote. Had the MOU had any chance to affect the NIC or SLI, there would NEVER have been a 98% yes vote. You know that......are you ignorant? Yes..... Wake up, the NIC is coming.....the APA and even your company know the Westie's case is ripe. We all know it.... And you will too, soon.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[Carl S.]

Judge today just made this more complex...asking for talks between USAPA and AOL??? USAPA represents all LCC pilots, not just East pilots and needs LUP to go off nic? AOL is just to force the DFR, not to adjusts SLI's...

 

[Bringupthebird]

Judge today just made this more complex...asking for talks between USAPA and AOL??? USAPA represents all LCC pilots, not just East pilots and needs LUP to go off nic? AOL is just to force the DFR, not to adjusts SLI's...

Would you ask her honor if I can just send my dues to AOL instead of USAPA? I thought there was some prohibition in the RLA against dual representation.

 

[waveflyer]

Judge today just made this more complex...asking for talks between USAPA and AOL??? USAPA represents all LCC pilots, not just East pilots and needs LUP to go off nic? AOL is just to force the DFR, not to adjusts SLI's...

Well, practically speaking, we ALL know USAPA is only representing the east on the SLI issue at hand

 

[Bringupthebird]

Well, practically speaking, we ALL know USAPA is only representing the east on the SLI issue at hand

The USAPA patented head-slapper is that they could have pulled the very same move under ALPA AND had enough money to be relevant in a merger. Now they only set themselves up for a whopper of a DFR damages settlement - all for nothing!

And the SLI is not the only issue where USAPA has decided to erect a "whites only" lunch counter: Ask USAPA how many west grievances have been pursued, ask them why the west had to pay back a distance learning accounting error and the east hasn't, ask them for details on how many east pilots vs west pilots have been brought up on sec 19 charges due to delinquent dues payment, ask them what is it they don't understand about how "separate but equal" isn't.

If Judge Silver is willing to accept the entirety of the case of USAPA failing to equally represent the west pilots, there will be no shortage of evidence.

I think todays mandate to negotiate is just a chance to see USAPA in action for herself. They will say they are constitutionally incapable of negotiating anything but DOH. I think once she sees USAPA for herself, she will agree with Nicolau's decision.

 

[Turtle21]

The USAPA patented head-slapper is that they could have pulled the very same move under ALPA AND had enough money to be relevant in a merger. Now they only set themselves up for a whopper of a DFR damages settlement - all for nothing!

And the SLI is not the only issue where USAPA has decided to erect a "whites only" lunch counter: Ask USAPA how many west grievances have been pursued, ask them why the west had to pay back a distance learning accounting error and the east hasn't, ask them for details on how many east pilots vs west pilots have been brought up on sec 19 charges due to delinquent dues payment, ask them what is it they don't understand about how "separate but equal" isn't.

If Judge Silver is willing to accept the entirety of the case of USAPA failing to equally represent the west pilots, there will be no shortage of evidence.

I think todays mandate to negotiate is just a chance to see USAPA in action for herself. They will say they are constitutionally incapable of negotiating anything but DOH. I think once she sees USAPA for herself, she will agree with Nicolau's decision.

If she thinks the Nic arbitration is enforceable, she could have just saved everyone a lot of trouble and simply could have given the Plaintiff the injunction they asked for, to make USAPA use the Nic.

If she thought that one or both defendants were correct that she has to dismiss the plaintiff's case, she could have been giving the Plaintiffs a chance to attempt to work out a settlement that she herself can't provide.

 

[Bringupthebird]

She's letting USAPA hang themselves publicly. By further demonstrating bad faith negotiating, she affirms what the west class has said all along.

While it's sad that USAPA has ignored every judge and arbitrator who has urged USAPA to live up to their responsibilities, the tragedy is that 5000 east pilots have been willing to pay so dearly so that a very very few could benefit. Had the Nic been implemented, virtually every active working pilot at the date of the snapshot would have stiil gained the same increase in status AND they would have gotten a substantial raise which would not be jeopardized by impending damages.

 

[Bringupthebird]

If she thinks the Nic arbitration is enforceable, she could have just saved everyone a lot of trouble and simply could have given the Plaintiff the injunction they asked for, to make USAPA use the Nic.

Your naievete as to the disdain to which you and your cabal are held by your peers is both quaint and pitiful.

 

[waveflyer]

I'll widen the peer group to include all major airline pilots-
To willingly hold on to that BK contract is terribly dumb, and hurtful to ALL of us.