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AMR also believes that the west pilots case is ripe!

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Metrojet said:
USAPA represents former West and East, but operating under different contracts right - I think we agree on that. And since there is no j c b a that was ever signed - then we have separate lists.

The only way for the Nic to have been active - was if the west members and east members ratified a joint contract. That is not going to occur now - so therefore no ripeness or breach of DFR. That is what the judge is going to rule.

The American filing for intervention is just to remove any delay from the addington plaintiffs in the timetable of the mou.

USAPA is protecting the interests of both east and west and APA will protect the interests of their members.

Metrojet
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The MOU is a CBA for east and west. That is what is at case here. Don't you get it. There is no more East and West on the POR. We will be one big happy family. So enjoy the August bid. The next one will be open system wide with west pilots coming eastbound!
 
abefly said:
The MOU is a CBA for east and west. That is what is at case here. Don't you get it. There is no more East and West on the POR. We will be one big happy family. So enjoy the August bid. The next one will be open system wide with west pilots coming eastbound!
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Good, maybe then I can get westbound. PHL's a real garden spot. You'll love it out here!
 
Metrojet said:
USAPA represents former West and East, but operating under different contracts right - I think we agree on that. And since there is no j c b a that was ever signed - then we have separate lists.
Metrojet
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The Nic list is valid and accepted by USAirways, merely non-implemented. There is no lack of evidence in the form of correspondence, hotlines, memos, and more that can quickly prove that USAPA decided to choose to advance the cause of the east pilots at the expense of the west.

The court will agree that the MOU constitutes a single agreement and triggers the implementation of the the Nic list. If there is a vacancy bid prior to the completion of the SLI arbitration, those pilots senior enough to hold their desired positions will do so. There will be some very very very junior captains who will remain so for quite a while.

You will likely not even notice when the Nic is implemented, There probably won't be an solar eclipse, or eathquake. But the comraderie among the east pilots who suffered unnecessarily under LOA93 so that a few could grab an upgrade they were not due, that I am sure will take a serious blow.
 
Metrojet said:
If I may ask a simple question to the Westies? Do you really think that APA is going to accept the Nic that puts almost 1700 pilots slotted in way ahead of all those 1980's and 1990's DOH AA pilots.?
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The APA is terrified of arbitration. They're used to dictating seniority to merging pilots. They're going to try to do exactly what you Easties are trying to do us and they're going to us the same tactics: lying, cheating, stealing, crying, and screaming. And I guarantee you they will do it better and more effectively than USAPA.

You Easties have marginalized over a third of USAirways pilots and that will hurt us all in the arbitration hearings. Your begging for DOH will be met with the same response as George Nicolau: come back with a more realistic proposal.

If I may ask a simple question to the Easties? Who do you think has more to gain from this merger, the APA or us?
We're gonna need all the leverage we can get but you Easties have ensured we'll have darn little...
 
The SLI will be completed in arbitration and will not be DOH and will be over with soon. Currently USAPA is working to change their angle - relative integration as of 14 FEB 13. Interesting. I'll keep you posted as I get solid information.
 
Flopgut said:
How soon is "soon"? Any chance this SLI is done before August?
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Try 2015. A minimum of 18 months after the merger closes. Just scheduling three arbitrators at once takes 6-12 months lead time. The MOU provides a timeline but the arbitrators go by their own.
 
pave driver said:
The SLI will be completed in arbitration and will not be DOH and will be over with soon. Currently USAPA is working to change their angle - relative integration as of 14 FEB 13. Interesting. I'll keep you posted as I get solid information.
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And that keeps them out of court HOW?
 
pave driver said:
Yes. Mixed metal and crews this year. SLI next year.
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More examples of Eastie cluelessness. Such obtuseness can only be deliberate.

Mixed metal after the POR? Possibly but I wouldn't bet on it happening right away.

Mixed crews? Zero chance. Two different scheduling systems can't be combined without months of lead time and that process hasn't even begun. Plus, you can't mix crews with out a combined list in effect. Unless, of course, you meant the Nicolau list.

SLI next year? Um, I know you think the world revolves around the East but I assure you the arbitrators will go by their own schedule and not our MOU.
 
Bringupthebird said:
Merely a flesh wound, right? If the case is ripe, then the MOU is a de-facto JCBA upon the Effective Date. So Kirby was right in saying that Nicolau won't be used after the JCBA. It will be used prior to that, on the effective date, to merge 2 lists into 1 new one.

Yes the east will probably get another round or two of upgrades in the interim, but the seniority integration will make that a hollow victory as they slide further into the seniority abyss with every subsequent vacancy bid.

If a jury finds that USAPA is guilty of a DFR to the west, then the east will likely pay damages out of those upgrade wages. APA will not be willing to do anything that could put them on the hook for paying those damages.

I really hate that it had to come to this, all because a few fear mongerers (Bradford, Cleary, et.al.) got so many to believe their lies about the consequences of the Nic which everyone is about to discover are far less than the consequences of USAPA's strategy (if you can call it that).

With power comes responsibility. USAPA chose to jettison both to the detriment of their supporters.
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You know the REALLY pathetic thing about all this? Those East Idiots have forced everybody to lose over a billion dollars in pay just so that some of them could capture their$125/hr captain upgrades...the IDIOTS were going to get 2 out of every 3 upgrades WITH THE NIC ANYWAY!

So divide a billion dollars by 1/3rd the East upgrades over the last 5 years...that's how much each seat cost the pilot group. My guess those upgrades cost 8-10 million dollars each. IDIOTS!!
 
TWA Dude said:
More examples of Eastie cluelessness. Such obtuseness can only be deliberate.

Mixed metal after the POR? Possibly but I wouldn't bet on it happening right away.

Mixed crews? Zero chance. Two different scheduling systems can't be combined without months of lead time and that process hasn't even begun. Plus, you can't mix crews with out a combined list in effect. Unless, of course, you meant the Nicolau list.

SLI next year? Um, I know you think the world revolves around the East but I assure you the arbitrators will go by their own schedule and not our MOU.
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TWA DUDE...There is nothing preventing West crews from flying under their NIC seniority on the East. Under their scheduling system. The East flight attendants are doing it on the West already. After POR, West will be able to bid East.
 
abefly said:
TWA DUDE...There is nothing preventing West crews from flying under their NIC seniority on the East. Under their scheduling system. The East flight attendants are doing it on the West already. After POR, West will be able to bid East.
Click to expand...

You are wrong.
 
TWA Dude said:
The company is preventing it and USAPA won't complain.
Click to expand...

Agreed, the company does not want to piss off the East. However, after an Injunction/Summary Judgement by Silver and the comany will have no choice. The TA will be complete on POR. If the comany chooses not to allow the West to bid East after then, they will be even more subject to damages.
 
Bringupthebird said:
The Nic list is valid and accepted by USAirways, merely non-implemented. There is no lack of evidence in the form of correspondence, hotlines, memos, and more that can quickly prove that USAPA decided to choose to advance the cause of the east pilots at the expense of the west.

The court will agree that the MOU constitutes a single agreement and triggers the implementation of the the Nic list. If there is a vacancy bid prior to the completion of the SLI arbitration, those pilots senior enough to hold their desired positions will do so. There will be some very very very junior captains who will remain so for quite a while.

You will likely not even notice when the Nic is implemented, There probably won't be an solar eclipse, or eathquake. But the comraderie among the east pilots who suffered unnecessarily under LOA93 so that a few could grab an upgrade they were not due, that I am sure will take a serious blow.
Click to expand...

"An upgrade they were not due" ?
Wow - wish I was a little birdie in that cockpit if you ever come east

Metro jet
 
Metrojet said:
"An upgrade they were not due" ?
Wow - wish I was a little birdie in that cockpit if you ever come east

Metro jet
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Sorry, the NIC arbitration was agreed upon by the Easties, the Westies, and the company. Even NIC himself was agreed upon beforehand. So, you will lose. The Westies are DUE seats, and they will take them.


Bye Bye---General Lee
 
abefly said:
Prove me wrong. Facts? or anything more than saying I am wrong? You must work for USAPA.
Click to expand...

Agree that AFTER AA POR east-west bidding may take place but not possible now. FA's are on a common contract now so they can do it.

Work for USAPY? Not so much. 30 years with AWA in October.
 
captfred said:
Agree that AFTER AA POR east-west bidding may take place but not possible now. FA's are on a common contract now so they can do it.

Work for USAPY? Not so much. 30 years with AWA in October.
Click to expand...


sorry Fred . Didn't know u were on the good side.

After POR is what I was implying, when we are on a single CBA
 

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