AMR also believes that the west pilots case is ripe!

[TWA Dude]

Nic or better?

Restitution for the damage we've suffered since the East withdrew from joint contract negotiations in 2007: furloughs, stagnation, loss of pay. Frankly, the Nic list just isn't good enough anymore. I'm kind of hoping for a 3-way.

 

[weasel_lips]

You mean this one?



Yeah, I don't know all the facts. I am still waiting on one - Why weren't the two pilots fired on the spot for allowing a passenger to sit in the jumpseat with every intention of staying there for the entire flight?

You guys get all tingly about the hiring going on in the east. Well, there's 2 more vacancies!

There are a lot of fine folks on the west side, you are the exception to that rule.

 

[reepicheep]

I am a west pilot but after 7 years of supposedly having the law on our side & being in the right the overconfidence and high-fiving by some on the west is breathtaking. Have we learned nothing? It's a crapshoot.

 

[FR8mastr]

Restitution for the damage we've suffered since the East withdrew from joint contract negotiations in 2007: furloughs, stagnation, loss of pay. Frankly, the Nic list just isn't good enough anymore. I'm kind of hoping for a 3-way.

I'm sorry how silly of me, I forgot that once hired at America West you were guaranteed constant growth and upgrades for the duration of your career.

 

[Bringupthebird]

Unions generally try to eliminate whipsawing, rather than rely on it. Once USAPA decided that it could grab the flag and pick winners and losers in the SLI, they set themselves up for a DFR.

Check,( no make that cash) please!

 

[TWA Dude]

I'm sorry how silly of me ...

Typical Eastie response; always avoiding responsibility. The East reneged on a commitment. That shows a lack of integrity and nothing you can say about AWA changes that.

 

[Turtle21]

Typical Eastie response; always avoiding responsibility. The East reneged on a commitment. That shows a lack of integrity and nothing you can say about AWA changes that.

Always whining about the minority knowing what is right.

Whatever, lets see if tomorrow Judge Silver continues to tell Marty and his clients that USAPA does not have to use the Nic.

 

[Flybywire44]

Aren't settlement negotiations ongoing at this time between East/West to establish a new DOH/SLI hybrid?

"I have had many inquiries about what is going on behind the scenes with USAPA concerning Addington II. At this time, I can only say the BPR has signed non-disclosure agreements and as far as I know, everyone has honored that agreement. So I know little about what is happening in the background and no one has given me special information.

What I can tell you without giving any confidentiality as this is only my take, is that the BPR and the officers feel confident that they are doing everything they can to act in good faith and in accordance with Judge Silver's order. They continue to maintain confidence in our legal team.

The judge seems to be looking for a way out and so she should. But she can not force a settlement on us without throwing out extensive Federal Law concerning the RLA, and NLRB. I have no doubt that these negotiations will go the same way the 4 other attempts by us to negotiate with the west after Nicolau issued his award. The west will not negotiate until we agree to implement the Nicolau Award. Since, as the 9th Circuit stated in it's opinion, the Nicolau will never be voted for by a majority of USAPA members, it is not a viable solution.

She would also have to throw out the Ninth Circuit's ruling that USAPA is not required to use the Nicolau list and is free to use a list of their own making. We may have to defend that list at some point in the future, but DOH with C & R is a time proven method of seniority integration and not something we have much to worry about.

She would have to re-write the McCaskill-Bond Amendment by allowing 3 entities when there are only 2 unions. Will she pick the west representatives? I doubt it.

She would also have to over rule her own previous ruling.

Time is running out for the west. This is the west's "Hail Mary Pass" that will go no where. Judges hate to have their rulings overturned and she most certainly would have her ruling overturned if she attempted to force a settlement on us.

At this point, from what I am hearing, USAPA legal has things well in hand.

Just my opinion,
BG"

 

[becket]

Whatever, lets see if tomorrow Judge Silver continues to tell Marty and his clients that USAPA does not have to use the Nic.

You mean like this:

?Let's read all of the order which I thought I was very clear to make the -- all counsel and the parties in front of me; but I basically said that you could, in fact, go forward and make a decision without the Nicolau Award but I didn't say that you unequivocally could reject it. I said that it was dangerous for you to do that because it was considered fair.

So you had to consider it. Now that's what I said and there's no way you could read that order any other way.?

Here?s an exchange between Judge Silver and USAPA legal counsel Pat Szymanski (emphasis added in bold):

?MR. SZYMANSKI: And, Your Honor, I'm not saying that the Nicolau Award is not fair although there were significant problems with it, and I'm not saying that a date-of-hire proposal is not fair. We've given the Court cases and citations to a number of Court decisions that say that a date-of-hire proposal is within the union's duty of fair representation and is fair. But there are a number of other possible proposals and we were prepared to discuss those with representatives of the West Pilots and they said no. They did not want to talk about that.?

And then later in the discussion:
MR. SZYMANSKI: We haven't had any discussions because they don't want to discuss anything other than the Nicolau Award and I don't want the Court to misunderstand the fact that doing the Nicolau Award itself as it is, as it stands, is a realistic possibility. It isn't. It just ? it isn't. But we are willing to say --

THE COURT: Why isn't it?

MR. SZYMANSKI: Because we think it was unfair.

THE COURT: Well, why isn't it -- but it was unfair. Why is it not fair now in the future, as you're working this out? As I said quite clearly in my order, you're not bound by it but it may well be that it is the fair way to go. I mean --I made that clear that it's quite dangerous for you to reject it.

Here is another excerpt from Judge Silver?s Order:
"At oral argument in the previous case, Mr. Szymanski stated ?we?re prepared to talk and we want to talk and we want genuine engagement from the West Pilots about the seniority proposal and we are prepared to make changes.? (CV-10-1570-PHX-ROS, Doc. 187 at 31). Does this statement conflict with Mr. Szymanski?s more recent statements indicating ?USAPA will do whatever it takes to see that there is no Nicolau? and that USAPA will vigorously fight to prevent the West Pilots from being heard during the McCaskill-Bond process? (Doc. 14-3 at 50-51). Is this approach in violation of this Court?s prior Order stating ?[a]n impartial arbitrator?s decision regarding an appropriate method of seniority integration is powerful evidence of a fair result? and ?[d]iscarding the Nicolau Award places USAPA on dangerous ground???

Yep. No problems in USAPIA!

 

[Bringupthebird]

Always whining about the minority knowing what is right.

Minority? Anyone who has sacrificed person gain to preserve their honor not only knows what's right, but has done it.

 

[Carl S.]

USAPA Legal is running out of time and delay tactics...time to own up to what you agreed to Easties...DOH with C&R's is just a dream for AFO's....LCC/AMR will also never go DOH....Enjoy the holiday weekend and remember those who gave all....Mark

 

[FR8mastr]

Minority? Anyone who has sacrificed person gain to preserve their honor not only knows what's right, but has done it.

Thank you,

Living under LOA 93 has been a huge sacrifice. But sometimes you just have to do what is right.

 

[Turtle21]

Minority? Anyone who has sacrificed person gain to preserve their honor not only knows what's right, but has done it.

Sacrificed personal gain... Like enduring 15% less pay for the same work while you get sued by "integrity paragons" that are trying to cash in on a windfall?

Have a great weekend.

 

[cactusboy53]

And as the judge and judges have said. It doesn't necessarily have to be the Nic award. So here we are back at the beginning again. Guess you guys will have to wait till the SLI with APA is completed to start the DFR again.....

[FONT=&quot]"Of course, in negotiating for a particular seniority regime, USAPA must not breach its duty of fair representation. Accordingly, if USAPA wishes to abandon the Nicolau Award and accept the consequences of this course of action, it is free to do so. By discarding the result of a valid arbitration and negotiating for a different seniority regime, USAPA is running the risk that it will be sued by the disadvantaged pilots when the new collective bargaining agreement is finalized. An impartial arbitrator?s decision regarding an appropriate method of seniority integration is powerful evidence of a fair result. Discarding the Nicolau Award places USAPA on dangerous ground."[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Judge Roslyn O. Silver, Chief United States District Judge[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]No. CV-10-01570-PHX-ROS ORDER; October 11, 2012[/FONT]

 

[cactusboy53]

The NIC is dead.

[FONT=&quot]The Board shall retain jurisdiction[/FONT][FONT=&quot] in accordance with Section H. 5 .b. of the ALPA Merger Policy to resolve any disputes over the meaning or interpretation of this Award. This retention of jurisdiction shall terminate when all provisions of the Award have been satisfied. In the event the Chairman becomes unavailable or unwilling to serve to resolve such disputes, the Merger Committees will agree on a replacement Chairman or will select one by the alternate strike method from the most recent ALPA list of seniority integrations arbitrators. In the event one of the Pilot Neutrals becomes unable or unwilling to serve on the Arbitration Board to resolve such disputes, the Chairman, after consultation with the Parties, shall decide how to proceed. In any such arbitration, if there is a dispute between the methodology contained in the Award and the accompanying Integrated Seniority List or any other list purportedly using such methodology, the Seniority List prevails.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]George Nicolau, Mediator[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]AWA/AAA Opinion & Award; May 07, 2007[/FONT]

 

[Bringupthebird]

Sacrificed personal gain... Like enduring 15% less pay for the same work while you get sued by "integrity paragons" that are trying to cash in on a windfall?

Have a great weekend.

You skipped the part about preserving your honor. Perhaps it doesn't apply.

You brought on LOA93 through your years of stubbornness, and you cling to it out of the very same stubbornness. It hasn't served you very well.

 

[General Lee]

Any word on what happened with Judge Silver today? Wasn't there supposed to be a meeting today with the judge and all sides?


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[becket]

Any word on what happened with Judge Silver today? Wasn't there supposed to be a meeting today with the judge and all sides?


Bye Bye---General Lee

Final response briefs filed tonight. The West absolutely eviscerates USAPA. They condense the entire episode down to a few pages and demonstrate beyond any shadow of a doubt that USKKABA does not now, or has ever intended, to fairly represent the West hostages. The West also makes a supported, compelling argument to relieve the scab union of 3 million dollars to be paid west.

This 1.1 billion dollar mistake lands solely at the feet of the criminally greedy, morally bankrupt assh@les out east. Luckily they've personally paid 93% of the tab out of their own meager household budgets. Silver set the trap and these scumbags jumped head first into it. Choke on it.

 

[General Lee]

Final response briefs filed tonight. The West absolutely eviscerates USAPA. They condense the entire episode down to a few pages and demonstrate beyond any shadow of a doubt that USKKABA does not now, or has ever intended, to fairly represent the West hostages. The West also makes a supported, compelling argument to relieve the scab union of 3 million dollars to be paid west.

This 1.1 billion dollar mistake lands solely at the feet of the criminally greedy, morally bankrupt assh@les out east. Luckily they've personally paid 93% of the tab out of their own meager household budgets. Silver set the trap and these scumbags jumped head first into it. Choke on it.

DDDDDDDD-DAMN!!!


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[Bringupthebird]

Final response briefs filed tonight. The West absolutely eviscerates USAPA. They condense the entire episode down to a few pages and demonstrate beyond any shadow of a doubt that USKKABA does not now, or has ever intended, to fairly represent the West hostages. The West also makes a supported, compelling argument to relieve the scab union of 3 million dollars to be paid west.

This 1.1 billion dollar mistake lands solely at the feet of the criminally greedy, morally bankrupt assh@les out east. Luckily they've personally paid 93% of the tab out of their own meager household budgets. Silver set the trap and these scumbags jumped head first into it. Choke on it.

In other words, Hummel declares "Mission Accomplished"