AMR also believes that the west pilots case is ripe!

[Dornier 335]

How is General Lee a Poser? He isn't a Delta pilot?

Ever notice his lack of posting when it comes to a technical discussion? He usually like to stick his nose into everybody's business, but on the above mentioned issue(s) he is suspiciously silent.

Still waiting for his reply when it comes to scratching the surface. Again: dead silent.

 

[sean67]

I'm not quite sure why some on the east think it's over. There is still a possibility, however remote, that she could rule in favor of the west for an injunction. It is after all, not over yet.

I personally would guess at a three way. It seems many on the east think that a three way would be great. Some on the east appear totally against this however and hope for DOH. They feel USAPA can just combine the west and east list using USAPA's internal seniority policy of DOH. How they think that is possible or even remotely acceptable, I don't know. Oh, I guess I do know, it staples the west below the east.

HP
I'm an eastie and I believe that there will be some middle ground from both sides. I'm a 99 hire and didn't expect much in the way of date of hire for my hire date. I try to see both sides on this issue..on my side, it's difficult to see a 2003 west hire above a 88 east hire...and I also see your argument of binding arbitration....above my pay grade.

 

[Hpilot]

HP
I'm an eastie and I believe that there will be some middle ground from both sides. I'm a 99 hire and didn't expect much in the way of date of hire for my hire date. I try to see both sides on this issue..on my side, it's difficult to see a 2003 west hire above a 88 east hire...and I also see your argument of binding arbitration....above my pay grade.

I'm not saying I disagree, but I think we won't see much in the way of concessions from Judge Silver's courtroom. USAPA is bound by it's internal DOH policy and AOL was created to defend the Nic, not modify it. Understand your feelings about an 88' and 03' hire. One way or the other, I think we will both be better off in a couple years.

 

[Bringupthebird]

HP
I'm an eastie and I believe that there will be some middle ground from both sides. I'm a 99 hire and didn't expect much in the way of date of hire for my hire date. I try to see both sides on this issue..on my side, it's difficult to see a 2003 west hire above a 88 east hire...and I also see your argument of binding arbitration....above my pay grade.

My guess is that USAPA will announce a membership vote on a one-time-only suspending the DOH provision for this SLI and hope that it fails so that they can be vindicated. If it doesn't they will cloak their DOH list in another name and fein an attempt at "reasonableness" and provide cover for their inevitable lawsuit from AOL when west pilots are stapled below 3rd listers.

Szymanski might as well have justified USAPA's DFR under the well known "why does a dog lick his nuts? - because he can" defense. Silver knows USAPA's slimy scheme and is hoping they will play to script so that her decision will pass 9th Circuit appeals.

DOH is done, and with it USAPA. Pour acid on the ashes!

 

[sean67]

I'm not saying I disagree, but I think we won't see much in the way of concessions from Judge Silver's courtroom. USAPA is bound by it's internal DOH policy and AOL was created to defend the Nic, not modify it. Understand your feelings about an 88' and 03' hire. One way or the other, I think we will both be better off in a couple years.

Yep,

Big picture, I want all of us to get a better life. I hope the merger coupled with the mass attrition will make all of our careers better...finally! I've been able to stay away from this mess by being on military orders, but those days are closing. Looking forward to a strong New American...together!

 

[Turtle21]

Yep,

Big picture, I want all of us to get a better life. I hope the merger coupled with the mass attrition will make all of our careers better...finally! I've been able to stay away from this mess by being on military orders, but those days are closing. Looking forward to a strong New American...together!

Military leave is so good it feels like stealing beach time as a squatter for months on end at a celebrity's house on the north shore.

Just wait till you get your back pay check contributions to your 401K for all the payments they would have made if your were active during your military leave. It makes up a little for how bad this job sucks compared to the one we left when we started military leave.

 

[Crzipilot]

From the crack WalMart legal mind of Symanski


You just can't make that kind of crap up.

why don't you paste the snippets of the West lawyer repeatedly telling the judge that it has to be the NIC award....and the Judge telling him multiple times. Read my lips, I'm telling you it doesn't. The 9th is always right, I can not overrule their ruling and I'm giving you an out by demanding all parties sit down this week. I do not want to hear the west to state, It's the NIC or nothing. She did tell USAPA, they have to consider the NIC because it was fair. USAPA lawyer explained that those statements came out around the same time that they tried to engage the West party to sit at the table and the West party refused, saying NIC or nothing.

I don't think it's over, but I do believe the premise that the West would get the NIc award is pretty much over. They have basically been told AGAIN, sit down and come to an agreement, or your going to have to wait until everything is completed and bring your complaint. THEN your going to have to prove that DOH or whatever variant that is used, (besides the NIC) is outside of a wide range and reasonableness for the Union to provide it's members a new contract pay etc etc.

I almost think she was waiting or leading the USAPA lawyer towards giving her the reason for the DOH comments etc...she touched the corners of the LUP she was looking for. And it was stated in some areas, I.E. 30-50K pay raises, security, increased retirement, etc etc etc...........

Either way, I think it's going to be a very long, expensive and hard road for the west pilots to travel down to bring the DFR suit after all is said and done.

Their lawyer has basically blown his load early 3 times now. Last bill I saw for the west lawyer was 1.8mil? And that was after the first round. Wonder what deal he has cut the west pilots....

 

[Crzipilot]

My guess is that USAPA will announce a membership vote on a one-time-only suspending the DOH provision for this SLI and hope that it fails so that they can be vindicated. If it doesn't they will cloak their DOH list in another name and fein an attempt at "reasonableness" and provide cover for their inevitable lawsuit from AOL when west pilots are stapled below 3rd listers.

Szymanski might as well have justified USAPA's DFR under the well known "why does a dog lick his nuts? - because he can" defense. Silver knows USAPA's slimy scheme and is hoping they will play to script so that her decision will pass 9th Circuit appeals.

DOH is done, and with it USAPA. Pour acid on the ashes!

You seem to be one of the few around that have read the transcripts to interpret it as DOH is dead, and actually made the West case stronger......Could you send a copy of what your reading? It really is confusing that you are so close to this, yet so out of touch with what has transpired and was ordered.

True she said usapa and the west had to sit down and negotiate something. She never said DOH wasn't fair, she just said the NIC was at one time ruled as fair, so it needed to be considered. How it needed to be considered she didn't say. I think she even hinted at using something similar to the NIC to come up with something that the two sides could agree upon.

Only problem I see with a 3 way, is it's ability to stand up in court. M/B is a new federal law, and the company lawyers are using the procedure from the old CAB to parlay that into saying it plays into the federal law. Silver is going to want some solid case precedent to enable her to order such a thing. With as new as M/B is, there isn't any precedent out there....

 

[Bringupthebird]

So Crzi, you think that Szymansky's "We never said the Nic isn't fair, but we won't present it because we think it isn't fair" will stand up as a LUP, eh? Did you give yourself that crzipilot title?

You folks who love to live in your former glory days would love to have this back in the negotiations stage, as though mediation and arbitration never happened. But unfortunately USAPA was too stupid to make sure they stayed at arms length during the SLI process and got their tit in the wringer. AOL is not going to help them get it out after all the destruction of families and careers USAPA has been responsible for.

If USAPA wants to step down and let APA structure an adults version of SLI I would bet there would be sufficient votes to oust these union-wannabees. APA sees how stupid it is to put yourself in a position where you have chosen sides, why can't you?

CRZI, you had every resource to make this a success. The only thing you lacked was integrity.

 

[Bringupthebird]

And what does HerHonor think will compel USAPA to live up to its word to present the fruits of this little kaffe klatch? One side has a history of living up to it's obligations and one has no such history. What's the threat, "Play nice or you get the Nic!"?
By her making up the rules as she goes along, it begs for an appeal which will further delay the merger. Sticking to established law concerning binding arbitration suits everyone's interests including those who stole west positions because of no bump and flush.

Why doesn't she simply read the Nicolau award to educate herself instead of relying on the lawyers? He has a much better grasp of the issues than any laywer so far. And her annoying habit of cutting folks off when they are trying to explain rather than pursuade doesn't help either.