American at Love: Faking Angina

[vc10]

http://enplaned.blogspot.com/2005/12/american-at-love-faking-angina.html

 

[General Lee]

Didn't they fly F100s from DAL Love Field to LGA, MDW, LAS, and LAX? How long did they do that after Legend went away? Why did they stop? Ridiculous.



Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[conman]

General,

Did Delta keep its capacity the same in ATL to the west coast after it ran Jet Blue out of town????????????

 

[General Lee]

General,

Did Delta keep its capacity the same in ATL to the west coast after it ran Jet Blue out of town????????????

Pretty much. For a lot longer than AA stayed in DAL. We still have 10 or so widebodies or 757s from ATL to LAX. Remember, we still have 3 Airtran 737-700s to compete with. I think AA pulled their F100s out of Love Field a week after Legend went away. That was so obvious, and that hurts all of us. They should have stayed there for a year longer to prove they weren't predatory.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Tejas-Jet]

Didn't they fly F100s from DAL Love Field to LGA, MDW, LAS, and LAX? How long did they do that after Legend went away? Why did they stop? Ridiculous.

AA announced that they were pulling out of DAL ( yet again) on September 12, 2001. Legend Airlines died in early 2001.

Shortly thereafter, they went to the City of Dallas looking to get out of their long term agreement for the 3 gates at DAL. The City of DAL wouldn't hear it....so AA has been paying approx $300,000 per year to the city of Dallas for those 3 gates, that we are now finding out, need lots of work to get them operating.

Tejas

 

[DH2WN]

Oh my God!! Does this mean AA is actually going to have to compete for their customers? The way they act they should change their name to "Marxist Airlines".

 

[General Lee]

AA announced that they were pulling out of DAL ( yet again) on September 12, 2001. Legend Airlines died in early 2001.

Shortly thereafter, they went to the City of Dallas looking to get out of their long term agreement for the 3 gates at DAL. The City of DAL wouldn't hear it....so AA has been paying approx $300,000 per year to the city of Dallas for those 3 gates, that we are now finding out, need lots of work to get them operating.

Tejas

They flew the F100s out of Love for the full Summer of 2001, even after Legend went away? Really?

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[fokkerjet]

Legend stopped flying in December 2000, American pulled out of DAL the following September.

 

[furloughfodder]

<stir_ants>Well, speaking of "legends"... if some of these legend or legacy airlines like Delta, United, USAir, or NWA would just GO AWAY completely instead of floundering around in BK protection AAmerican would be just fine. Let CAL and AAmerican (the only 2 true legacy airlines that should still be here) thrive. Poop or get off the pot!</stir_ants>

 

[Lawman]

<stir_ants>Well, speaking of "legends"... is some of these legend or legacy airlines like Delta, United, USAir, or NWA would just GO AWAY completely instead of floundering around in BK protection AAmerican would be just fine. Let CAL and AAmerican (the only 2 true legacy airlines that should still be here) thrive. Poop or get off the pot!</stir_ants>

I agree. But first, we need hear some more whining from Delta telling us how wonderful they are.

 

[cipolini]

They flew the F100s out of Love for the full Summer of 2001, even after Legend went away? Really?

Bye Bye--General Lee

Yes, because AA knew it would look awfully bad to leave LUV once they killed Legend. 9/11 gave them the perfect excuse to leave. Their load factors were pretty low according to a AA friend of mine who flew those F100s out of DAL.

 

[aa73]

Oh my God!! Does this mean AA is actually going to have to compete for their customers? The way they act they should change their name to "Marxist Airlines".

DH2WN,

There you go on a SWA-typical attack, once again. Why are you boys getting so arrogant over there (a title previously reserved for AA pilots!) AA has always had to compete for customers, just like SWA. Even on the DFW-STL route. Before I hired on here, I used to fly STL-LIT-DAL on SWA all the time because AA was too expensive.

Please, lay off the "my airline is better than yours" attacks. These decisions are management decisions and you and I are just pilots. In fact, you and I are both ex Blue Ridgers. so we're cool by default, right?

AA is sweating bullets right now, trying to figure out how to deal with the changes. And like it or not, they will eventually have to compete with an unrestricted SWA pretty soon. When you SWA types come out laughing at us for stuff that's out of our control, you come out sounding pretty lame. Not like most of the SWA pilots I've had the pleasure of knowing. So let's leave it at that, matey, yeah? We're all professionals here...

 

[Palomino]

DH2WN,

There you go on a SWA-typical attack, once again. Why are you boys getting so arrogant over there (a title previously reserved for AA pilots!) AA has always had to compete for customers, just like SWA. Even on the DFW-STL route. Before I hired on here, I used to fly STL-LIT-DAL on SWA all the time because AA was too expensive.

Please, lay off the "my airline is better than yours" attacks. These decisions are management decisions and you and I are just pilots. In fact, you and I are both ex Blue Ridgers. so we're cool by default, right?

AA is sweating bullets right now, trying to figure out how to deal with the changes. And like it or not, they will eventually have to compete with an unrestricted SWA pretty soon. When you SWA types come out laughing at us for stuff that's out of our control, you come out sounding pretty lame. Not like most of the SWA pilots I've had the pleasure of knowing. So let's leave it at that, matey, yeah? We're all professionals here...

thank you for your eloquence and level-headed manner.

i'm so sick of pilots bashing pilots. yes SWA is riding high now. might wanna temper that arrogance as your day will come...believe it or not.

i am also surprised at the culture change that seems to be occuring at SWA. i thought this town would always have AA playing the role of Biff. i guess McFly feels the need to bully like the other guy.

we are all pilots earning a check and clinging to benefits. this place really baffles me sometimes with the childish banter. at least i know who my friends are.

kudos to all who have a stable airline career. i have news for you: you're not special. YOU ARE LUCKY.

 

[furloughfodder]

Oh my God!! Does this mean AA is actually going to have to compete for their customers? The way they act they should change their name to "Marxist Airlines".

That is a good one coming from a SWA guy. Here are just a few examples I can think of showing how SWA HATES to compete, and tries every trick in the book to avoid competition:

1. Flies out of Midway, not OHare
2. Scared of flying out of DEN (until recently) uses Springs instead
3. Tries to get approval to fly out of Boeing Field because too many airlines already fly out of Sea-Tac
4. Monopoly on Love Field, starts to cry when another airlines tries to move in

i am sure there are a ton more....

 

[TexaSWA]

That is a good one coming from a SWA guy. Here are just a few examples I can think of showing how SWA HATES to compete, and tries every trick in the book to avoid competition:

1. Flies out of Midway, not OHare
2. Scared of flying out of DEN (until recently) uses Springs instead
3. Tries to get approval to fly out of Boeing Field because too many airlines already fly out of Sea-Tac
4. Monopoly on Love Field, starts to cry when another airlines tries to move in

i am sure there are a ton more....

1. AA also flies out of midway, as does ATA.
2. Pulled out of DEN years ago because of delays. Never flew to springs.
3. Was due to SEA increasing fees. Not because of other airlines.
4. We have not once tried to stop anyone from moving to DAL, much less shed a tear over it. Another airline did try to stop Legend from operating from DAL, quite sucessfully.

Dont know why I try to clarify this, its pretty much common knowledge.

Further, I dont think DH2SWAs comment was aimed at the AA pilot group. That would be rediculous.

They deserve no more blame for AAs problems than we do credit for the decision to hedge fuel.

 

[aa73]

Further, I dont think DH2SWAs comment was aimed at the AA pilot group. That would be rediculous.

They deserve no more blame for AAs problems than we do credit for the decision to hedge fuel.

TexasSWA,

I know his comment wasn't directed at our pilot group. I just don't think it's very proper for the pilots of one airline to ridicule another airline's management over decisions that we the pilots don't make. Because then it starts to border on arrogance, i.e. "I fly for an airline that makes great business decisions, and you don't." You see, if AA fails miserably at Love, we the employees end up paying for it, one way or another - even though we didn't make that choice to begin with.

My take on all this is to simply wish the SWA and AA pilots luck, because to sit here and gloat about my airline making good decisions and yours making crappy ones is totally out of place.

Like I said, the SWA pilot group always earned my respect on how laid back they were. Now all of a sudden with all this WA stuff going on, it seems like there is more and more arrogance - specifically aimed at AA - 1 and it's just not what I'd expected to see from the SWA guys. What happened?

 

[Skyboss]

Oh my God!! Does this mean AA is actually going to have to compete for their customers? The way they act they should change their name to "Marxist Airlines".

I think you have your airlines backward. AA competes with everyone else at DFW. Why doesn't Southwest?

 

[Skyboss]

3. Was due to SEA increasing fees. Not because of other airlines.

Umm... Didn't want to pay their share of the tab for the new runway, the reason for the fees. Do try to be straight up on this. And as far as other airports you don't want to compete at:

DFW
IAD
DCA
LGA
JFK
SFO
ORD
MSP
MIA
CVG
IAH
ATL

Quite the list no?

 

[canyonblue]

I think you have your airlines backward. AA competes with everyone else at DFW. Why doesn't Southwest?

Yea, and Hugh Hefner competes with all the other guys at the Playboy Mansion.

 

[Skyboss]

Yea, and Hugh Hefner competes with all the other guys at the Playboy Mansion.

I thought you worked the strong and mighty Southwest? What, you still think you're the little kid on the block? Nice try.

 

[canyonblue]

I thought you worked the strong and mighty Southwest? What, you still think you're the little kid on the block? Nice try.

Remember where I work. It's the finite place as you call it.

You appear to be the Southwest employee working for a company that has no option but to grow with finite options on where to go because of aircraft size.

I know your business plan has flaws and I know your growth potential is finite. Did you know that? Probably not.

 

[ivauir]

TexasSWA,

I know his comment wasn't directed at our pilot group. I just don't think it's very proper for the pilots of one airline to ridicule another airline's management over decisions that we the pilots don't make. Because then it starts to border on arrogance, i.e. "I fly for an airline that makes great business decisions, and you don't." You see, if AA fails miserably at Love, we the employees end up paying for it, one way or another - even though we didn't make that choice to begin with.

My take on all this is to simply wish the SWA and AA pilots luck, because to sit here and gloat about my airline making good decisions and yours making crappy ones is totally out of place.

Like I said, the SWA pilot group always earned my respect on how laid back they were. Now all of a sudden with all this WA stuff going on, it seems like there is more and more arrogance - specifically aimed at AA - 1 and it's just not what I'd expected to see from the SWA guys. What happened?

AA73,
thanks for not over reacting to the hyberbole. Don't think that just because someone posts "SWA FO" in their profile that it is true. And when it is true don't consider it representative of the group.

That being said, a SWA guy can't post on here without getting ripped into by every flopgut or skyboss on the web. I find myself getting a little defensive, and why? Because we are doing OK? Because my manegment team is making good choices? I'm not going to appologize for our sucess (i'm not taking credit for it either).

 

[TexaSWA]

aa73,

What I mean is that I agree that since we have little to do with the sucess or failure of our companies, it is rediculous to chunck rocks across the metroplex at each other.

I will however correct someone when they are wrong. (furloughfodder)

I hope it works out well for us all.

 

[aa73]

Ditto, well said. Good luck to us all (especially us AA types...)

 

[Hamburgler]

Wow, finally a sane thread on this topic - with a new angle! I fear that I come down with FlopGut and SkyBoss on this issue, but it's nice to see that we can all discuss this like sane adults and not react like the other side is calling out our moms or something ...

 

[mach zero]

Wow, finally a sane thread on this topic - with a new angle! I fear that I come down with FlopGut and SkyBoss on this issue, but it's nice to see that we can all discuss this like sane adults and not react like the other side is calling out our moms or something ...

I wish this was the case with the AA jumpseat. I elected to stop using it to get to work after the second time an AA Captain jumped down my throat about the Wright Amendment. Both times they refused to even shake my hand or introduce themselves. They just launched into a tirade on the subject.

 

[flyinglow]

Oh my God!! Does this mean AA is actually going to have to compete for their customers? The way they act they should change their name to "Marxist Airlines".

Much the same could be said of SWA.

 

[aa73]

I wish this was the case with the AA jumpseat. I elected to stop using it to get to work after the second time an AA Captain jumped down my throat about the Wright Amendment. Both times they refused to even shake my hand or introduce themselves. They just launched into a tirade on the subject.

That's lame, and I hope you reported them to your j/s comittee. Because had you been on my j/s, you would have had an enjoyable experience. We had a SWA guy on ours last month from PHX to DFW and we spent the whole flight laughing and BSing about all sorts of stuff. And yes the WA topic did come up briefly, to which I responded that it was basically history and we (AA) would have to learn how to cope.

 

[chase]

aa73,

For years you have posted sane and rational comments on a variety of topics...always with decorum...thanks for doing so again. The WA is probably the first truly "offensive" action (KCI in SEA was the 2nd) that SWA has done for quite awhile. Many employees have expressed views after 911 that SWA needed to be more offensively minded during the reccesion? Why? In fact SWA has had its greatest growth spurts during these reccesions & capitalized on the downturn to take market share.

After 911 many thought the same rule could apply but with changes in leadership & styles (HK gave up the CEO position to Jim Parker Apr '01...Colleen B made prez & then 911 hits...JP retires '04) the assertiveness didn't appear to be there (my summation & interpreation of how others within the company have viewed the last 4 years) & with the "charge of the light brigade" against the WA, a new banner was raised that has gotten the employee groups energized. This "over the top" enthusiasm at a time when most airlines are struggling comes across to some as arrogance or insensitive. Remember the days of Crandall if you will & I think this is the environment that he loved more than any, when he new he had a tremendous business opportunity & the cards were falling in his favor. He was a very tough businessman, some would say ruthless. I don't view GK or his team in the same way but their doggedness & focus I believe is admirable while still maintaining their humbleness (in the eyes of some, not all no doubt).

GK is trying to return 15% to his shareholders next year...his word is riding on it...I admire a man that is willing to ruffle a few "traditional myths" to accomplish a goal. I'm hopeful that AA & other carriers will survive & prosper....many friends, including you are there & I wish them well. I also hope that SWA continues to prosper & grow. The "tone" that some may have about shouting about the virtues of working at SWA or our business model or other aspects of SWA in light of the current industry slump may appear as insensitive....at times it probably has been in my opinion. Humor, sarcasm is hard to judge on any website but I think you would agree there are some on here who spin any news as negative toward SWA. posters on here..just as folks who have heartburn about Reno Air & TWA attempt to label current AA pilots as the cause of their demise....we're mostly pilots on here....imagine if there was forum for airline executives to lay into each other...I'd buy a subscription just to read the posts, wouldn't you? Have a great weekend & thanks for giving one of my buds a ride...hope to return the favor one day.

 

[aa73]

Chase,

Actually, they don't need a forum. ever heard of a club called "Los Conquistadores del Cielo"... it's a high and mighty get together for airline executives featuring such manly feats as knife throwing, bull riding, etc that takes place once a year on some ranch out in the west. I suspect there's plenty of one uppmanship going on at those meets!

Anyways, what you said is right on, and I appreciate your detailed posts. I know we always have one or two posters here who can't stand airlines that are doing well, and that's just the way it goes.

Good luck to us all, y'all (TX dictionary word) are always welcome on our j/s, and I promise that if I were a captain, I'd be given you guys a run for your money on taxi speeds once we come into DAL - unlike most of our SLOW POKE gomers.

Cheers!
73