ALPA sues SKYW

[www.]

Really, because I used to work at an ALPA carrier, and I could provide you with a list of initials longer than a horses d*ck of people that were unfairly fired there. In fact it was so common it happened on almost a monthly basis.

You guys can keep your ALPA, and I'll keep my 2%...hey I'll use it to buy more stock. Oh yeah, what ALPA carrier offers that plan?
hmmm, let me think...

Sounds like you may have been one of the pilots "unfairly fired." Your complaint is with your former MEC, not national.

 

[Gr82Aviate]

P.S. I already gave Newwoman a long list of initials on an old thread of people here that were unfairly terminated but he's too junior to know any of them.

He may be junior...but he probably has some real experience as to what a union has to offer.

I would bet the majority of you on here at SkyW whining how we need a union were cfi's that went straight to the bro, now you're on the big jet and you hear what ALPA tells you. You listen, but you have no real experience as to what ALPA can do.

I'm not saying SkyW is perfect, we certainly have our problems, just as every other carrier does and believe me ALPA won't solve these. But I have to say the grass is pretty green here at SkyW.

If you guys are that unhappy at SkyW...quit, because I'm running out of tissues and t*mpons for you.[/QUOTE]





Wrong again...actually flew freight, air ambulance, charter, and corporate before coming here!

 

[Texx]

1. I have no beef with ALPA.
2. I firmly believe that a company with a bad working relationship with its employees is in need of union representation.
3. However SkyW management has a great working relationship with it's people, they will go out of their way to help you if you help them.
4. If that relationship suddenly changed and they imposed pay cuts for no reason...Then maybe there would be a need for ALPA.

1. You sure do have a great deal of hate for unions.
2. So have you heard of a little old airline from Texas? SWA? Have they had problems with Herb K. or Kelly? No.
3. SWA does too. The difference is they were smart enough to get things in a contract. It didn't change the relationship. It's strickly business. Protecting the pilots' interests.
4. If this were to happen at Skywest Airlines you would be to late Jack!

 

[Gr82Aviate]

Really, because I used to work at an ALPA carrier, and I could provide you with a list of initials longer than a horses d*ck of people that were unfairly fired there. In fact it was so common it happened on almost a monthly basis.

You guys can keep your ALPA, and I'll keep my 2%...hey I'll use it to buy more stock. Oh yeah, what ALPA carrier offers that plan?
hmmm, let me think...

That's a new one for the Anti-Alpa group...usually you claim that Alpa protects all the crappy good for nothings from getting fired when they really should have been?!

 

[ArcticFlier]

SSDD,
you are correct. the ALPA lanyards are the only ones that any CP seems to care about. now, back to newman, if read my post you see that this CP did this in the crew lounge with many other pilots and FAs around. Do you consider that professional? do you consider that to be a hostile work enviornment? is that the kind of management that is there for the pilots? If a CP is so unprofessional in this regard, how is he going to act when there is a real issue?

Must have been T.F.

:laugh:

 

[BigLebowski]

Sounds like you may have been one of the pilots "unfairly fired." Your complaint is with your former MEC, not national.

no it was a resignation...thanks though

 

[BigLebowski]

Okay I've come up with 3 off the top of my head...

1. A written contract that would be binding on a successor
2. Only be subject to discipline for "just cause" - With an appeal path all the way to the Supreme Court.
3. Right to force the company to negotiate with you in "good faith" or face self-help.

You mentioned Com Air, Mesa, and ASA

Mesa - work rules/pay sucks, but they ended up utilizing a LOT of negotiating capital getting a solid scope and all of the MAG pilot-groups under one contract. They will have much more leverage the next time. Pilots only bitch about pay rates/work rules, but there is a reason Scope is Section 1 of every ALPA pilot contract.

ASA - what about them? The way I see it, it is your beloved management that is putting the screws to this pilot group. If your management had it their way, there would be no ASA pilot group...their contract-and the fact they were unionized is the only thing that is keeping your management from ramming your payrates/workrules down their throats.

ComAir - There company went bankrupt, it had nothing to do with ALPA. They spent the last few years with an industry (regional industry) leading contract.

Let me ask you this...

If the Skywest pilots were themselves on the receiving end...

What would stop management from suddenly cutting your pay rates say...UAL cancelled your code-share?

Say Skywest had to furlough, what would stop your management from furloughing for convinience instead of seniority? Let's see, that Midwest deal didn't work out...let's close the Milwaukee base - all Milwaukee pilots are furloughed regardless of seniority. Do you think the rest of your non-furloughed pilots would put up a fight?

If Skywest were bought by another carrier - say Mesa, what would stop Mesa from dissolving your pilot group and giving you a "take it or leave it" proposition. Maybe you will be lucky and they will give you a preferential interview. I'll give you a hint, the answer is a 7 letter word that starts with n and ends in g n_ _ _ _ _ g!

Good luck.

So what is ALPA going to do to stop this from possibly happening at ASA.

Let's make it simple...

Why don't you just list 5 things that ALPA will bring to SkyW to benefit us. Please no flame...just do that.

 

[skypine69]

artic,
no...it wasnt, although i have heard he was just as bad. another cp somewhere else in the system. i get to wear my lanyard though if i so choose, at least for a couple of more weeks.

 

[MONKEY]

...............

 

[Texx]

no it was a resignation...thanks though

Well that happens when people know the've done wrong also.

I also see you avoided the other questions put to you.

 

[HelloNewman]

1. You sure do have a great deal of hate for unions.
2. So have you heard of a little old airline from Texas? SWA? Have they had problems with Herb K. or Kelly? No.
3. SWA does too. The difference is they were smart enough to get things in a contract. It didn't change the relationship. It's strickly business. Protecting the pilots' interests.
4. If this were to happen at Skywest Airlines you would be to late Jack!

One big difference, Southwest isn't ALPA. Things just aren't that harmonious at other airlines. At SkyWest we have pretty good management like Southwest does. ALPA is just too hostile of an organization. Mr. Prater already clearly stated his intentions for "hard nosed barganing". ALPA is already going back to what caused the downfall of many great pilot contracts. This is one of the reasons the union drive is stagnant here.

Part of the reason we have kept a union away for 35 years is the pilots simply have felt they don't need one. It has to tell you something when it is 35 years and vote after vote doesn't pass. Getting things in writing doesn't mean crap. We all saw how easily Mesaba declared a sham bankruptcy and circumvented the contract anyway. If a company wants to screw you over they will find a way contract or not. Things just aren't like that here at Skywest. The company is not out to screw you. Out to make the biggest profit possible? Yes but that is a good thing for all of us.

 

[BigLebowski]

Well that happens when people know the've done wrong also.

I also see you avoided the other questions put to you.

Avoided the question...not close. I dont' see how you can compare SkyW to Southwest, and ALPA to SWAPA. Completely different scenario. Can you tell me how if we went ALPA that would even put a regional close to the airline leading the country right now? I mean this is really taking your ignorance to a whole new level.

Didn't resign due to anythign other than dislike for the company pal. You see I made a move because I wasn't happy with the company I was at...so I went to a company where I am happy...why don't you do the same? Don't give me that you put in too much time either, lots of people left where I came from with a lot more time than I had because they were unhappy.

BTW I noticed that you didn't answer the question posed to you...Please give me 5 reasons to vote ALPA on property...no flame, just do it, be serious...can you?

 

[HelloNewman]

BTW I noticed that you didn't answer the question posed to you...Please give me 5 reasons to vote ALPA on property...no flame, just do it, be serious...can you?

I will predict the same lame reasons they always give

1) We will have a CONTRACT ooooh wow big woop. First of all everything we have in the manual gets locked in except at 2% less. Then it can take as long as 5 years to get a new contract while we dish out all that money. Basically it would not be any different now. The company is not going out of their way to screw us. Also if the contract is violated grievances can take months if not years to resolve. Just ask Mesa guys about the Harris award. Basically the contract can be violated anyway and the company just says grieve it! We already have a PIC procedure which is often decided in favor of the pilot.

2) You won't be fired without just cause. I still don't buy the fact the comapny randomly fires people. Mr. Douglas is the only name I have ever been able to verify. If anyone else has stories feel free to PM me. Also remember when a pilot gets canned you only get the pilot side of the story not the whole story.

3) Access to unlimited resources, legal/medical/loss of lisence blah blah. The only problem is you have to pay EVEN MORE MONEY to get the medical/lisence coverage. They try to con you into thinking the 2% covers everything yet you still have to pay even more for that insurance. You could be out a lot of money every month. A lot of times you can take initiative and get your medical back just as easy as ALPA can. ALPA probably bribes people in the FAA to look at their cases faster to make themselves look better. If I lose my certificates I have plenty of other ways to make money.

Thats the top 3 reasons people always come up with. No one has ever been able to come up with FIVE, seperate, solid reasons. It is the same rhetoric re hashed over and over. They promise you the moon but rarely can even get you to the launching pad. Don't hold your breath for 5 good reasons. I have already shot down 3 of the most common reasons.

Lets see if they can come up with 5 original new ideas. Maybe they will save that for the inevitable next union drive. ALPA will take their ball and go home but only for so long. They can not stay away from us forever.

 

[Texx]

Avoided the question...not close. I dont' see how you can compare SkyW to Southwest, and ALPA to SWAPA. Completely different scenario. Can you tell me how if we went ALPA that would even put a regional close to the airline leading the country right now? I mean this is really taking your ignorance to a whole new level.

Didn't resign due to anythign other than dislike for the company pal. You see I made a move because I wasn't happy with the company I was at...so I went to a company where I am happy...why don't you do the same? Don't give me that you put in too much time either, lots of people left where I came from with a lot more time than I had because they were unhappy.

BTW I noticed that you didn't answer the question posed to you...Please give me 5 reasons to vote ALPA on property...no flame, just do it, be serious...can you?

I didn't even mention ALPA. But you do see they have a union.

You didn't put the questions to me. You did to someone else. So your questions are mute in response to mine.

So at the end of the day I guess the SWA pilots are just a little bit smarter and better business people than the Skywest pilots.

The attempt at an insult is amusing. Please read my posts before you waste my time with your dribble.

 

[Texx]

One big difference, Southwest isn't ALPA. Things just aren't that harmonious at other airlines. At SkyWest we have pretty good management like Southwest does. ALPA is just too hostile of an organization. Mr. Prater already clearly stated his intentions for "hard nosed barganing". ALPA is already going back to what caused the downfall of many great pilot contracts. This is one of the reasons the union drive is stagnant here.

Part of the reason we have kept a union away for 35 years is the pilots simply have felt they don't need one. It has to tell you something when it is 35 years and vote after vote doesn't pass. Getting things in writing doesn't mean crap. We all saw how easily Mesaba declared a sham bankruptcy and circumvented the contract anyway. If a company wants to screw you over they will find a way contract or not. Things just aren't like that here at Skywest. The company is not out to screw you. Out to make the biggest profit possible? Yes but that is a good thing for all of us.

And as I stated to your reading challenged partner, I didn't talk about ALPA.

Ah, your not a business person are you. Tell Jerry he doesn't have to sign any more contracts with DAL, UAL or Midwest. He can trust everybody.

Someday though with the shortage of pilots, the race to the bottom and greed coming your way someday. When you grow up, come play with the big boys.