ALPA Signs off on Age 65

[d328pilot]

An age limit may be legally specified in the circumstance where age has been shown to be a "bona fide occupational qualifications reasonably necessary to the normal operation of the particular business" (BFOQ) (see 29 U.S.C. § 623(f)(1)). In practice, BFOQs for age are limited to the obvious (hiring a young actor to play a young character in a movie) or when public safety is at stake (for example, in the case of age limits for pilots and bus drivers).

moving you to the right seat would not violate the law.

 

[filejw]

328, If they approve the 65 thing that wouldn't apply.(F1 below) Here is the part about Unions and age discrimination.

(c) It shall be unlawful for a labor organization-

(1) to exclude or to expel from its membership, or otherwise to
discriminate against, any individual because of his age;

(2) to limit, segregate, or classify its membership, or to classify
or fail or refuse to refer for employment any individual, in any way which
would deprive or tend to deprive any individual of employment
opportunities, or would limit such employment opportunities or otherwise
adversely affect his status as an employee or as an applicant for
employment, because of such individual's age;

(3) to cause or attempt to cause an employer to discriminate
against an individual in violation of this section.

(d) It shall be unlawful for an employer to discriminate against any of
his employees or applicants for employment, for an employment agency to
discriminate against any individual, or for a labor organization to
discriminate against any member thereof or applicant for membership,
because such individual, member or applicant for membership has opposed
any practice made unlawful by this section, or because such individual,
member or applicant for membership has made a charge, testified, assisted,
or partici pated in any manner in an investigation, proceeding, or
litigation under this chapter.

(e) It shall be unlawful for an employer, labor organization, or
employment agency to print or publish, or cause to be printed or
published, any notice or advertisement relating to employment by such an
employer or membership in or any classification or referral for
employment by such a labor organization, or relating to any classification
or referral for employment by such an employment agency, indicating any
preference, limitation, specification, or discrimination, based on age.

(f) It shall not be unlawful for an employer, employment agency, or labor
organization-

(1) to take any action otherwise prohibited under subsections (a),
(b), (c), or (e) of this section where age is a bona fide occupational
qualification reasonably necessary to the normal operation of the
particular business, or where the differentiation is based on reasonable
factors other than age, or where such practices involve an employee in a
workplace in a foreign country, and compliance with such subsections would
cause such employer, or a corporation controlled by such employer, to
violate the laws of the country in which such workplace is

 

[Freight Dog]

If ICAO rule is to stand - no two pilots over 60 allowed, and the FAA says no PIC of an aircraft operated under Part 121 can be over 60, sorry jack... that ain't discrimination - that's just the rule... and been upheld by the Supreme Court before.

 

[d328pilot]

It all depends on the specific legislation and what is contained in it. If it comes out and says that the PIC must be below 60, then there isnt anything that you can do about it. There has been age discrimination in the past upheld by the courts and I dont see any reason they would change it now.

It shows how greedy that some are because they wont even entertain the notion of a compromise. filejw, are you by chance a US Airways pilot? I see some of the same logic at work here....

 

[BoilerUP]

It shows how greedy that some are because they wont even entertain the notion of a compromise.

Yeah...because if you really wanted another 5 years in a 121 cockpit because you love to fly, why wouldn't the right seat be acceptable?

Welcome to reality and the way of the world....

Thank Gawd we've got our National officers looking out for our best interests, since us sheeple are not smart enough to figure it out on our own...

It just isn't happening the way you think it should.... no matter how hard you slam your eyes shut and believe it should... everytime you open your eyes there is no change....

So you can work with the players or slam your eyes shut again....

We're not stupid, Rez. We've known the change would likely happen...but the majority of ALPA members didn't expect their National leadership to flip position, sell our wishes down the river, and then feed us spin and lip service like we wanted this to happen and its gonna be roses for all of us. We expected our National leadership to fight...and since National was impotent in preventing Age 60 from a congressional perspective just how much clout do you think ALPA has in influencing the lawmaking process?

ALPA is choosing to work with the players.....

So Rez, when this finally gets pushed through after "working with the players" and there has been no obvious consideration of the negative career implications to junior/furloughed/young ALPA members (other than not being retroactive), who do we complain to then?

 

[Huck]

One of my favorite books is "Into Thin Air" about the 1996 season on Everest.

At the end of the book, the writer Krakauer agonizes over the fact that he didn't go out into the storm to look for his lost teammates, who subsequently froze to death.

Another teammate did go out and look, but could not find them. He tried to console the writer afterwards, but the bottom line was - Krakauer will never know if he could have saved them. The guy that did try can sleep with a clear conscience.


It wasn't an oncoming truck. It was a complex and political maelstrom of competing interests. On one hand was a tightly knit band of older pilots with a gameplan for marching on Capitol Hill. On the other hand was ALPA. David and Goliath, but David won, because Goliath threw in the towel.

And we're supposed to believe that Goliath is going to find his sack quick enough to stop globalization.

I encourage everyone to look at the fight AOPA and EAA are waging against user fees, on the same FAA reauthorization bill. Another "done deal" from Marion Blakey, but somehow they're fighting it anyway.....

 

[filejw]

328 No, but if you go back in this thread you will read some place I'm against the change. I am posting here just to inform folks who are talking about the right seat thing that Federal laws now on the books prevent age discrimination for people over 40(once things change to 65)..Personally I plan on being gone long before sixty.

 

[seefive]

DW slung his BS to the FedEx masses about how we need to change our position on age 60 in order to have a say in how it is implemented. The part he wants a say in is to let over 60 guys back in the front......again, against the vast majority of the pilots at FedEx. He's a joke.

 

[filejw]

And I found this too.
http://www.eeoc.gov/foia/letters/2006/adea_individualizedassessment_faa60rule.html

 

[Flopgut]

Delicately done, I think we could make these guys the new B scale in our CBAs without any sort of discrimination. We all control the pay, and we're the majority, let's put em on about 50% of normal wage...I think they'll retire.

 

[d328pilot]

So the EEOC has been against age 60 for over 20 years and it had no effect. They either are unwilling, or more likely, lack the legal authority to do anything about it. I cant imagine a new rule would be any different.

 

[redbook]

It wasn't an oncoming truck. It was a complex and political maelstrom of competing interests. On one hand was a tightly knit band of older pilots with a gameplan for marching on Capitol Hill. On the other hand was ALPA. David and Goliath, but David won, because Goliath threw in the towel.

And we're supposed to believe that Goliath is going to find his sack quick enough to stop globalization.

I encourage everyone to look at the fight AOPA and EAA are waging against user fees, on the same FAA reauthorization bill. Another "done deal" from Marion Blakey, but somehow they're fighting it anyway.....

Huck you nailed it. FJ too.

ALPA is nothing but a white towel waving, dues grabbing, corrupt organization.

"Guys, you are bound to get screwed, but just keep paying us. Thanks."

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Again Rez: I've been in three labor unions as a pilot. I've been well represented, and this aint it.

Aww thats cute. What is your solution to this?

You're commentary comes easy to you because you're free of the burden of having a even a clue of what proper representation is.

All I hear from your camp is Will of the Membership!!! Do you have anything else to offer?

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

And yeah, while I am raging against the machine, Rez, you are officially an idiot. I hate to say it, because we agreed on a lot of things, but you are completely in denial about what ALPA is doing for (actually against) you.

Good luck in the future as you wail about not enough people participating in an organization that really doesn't want us to participate.

FJ

Ok then..what do you suggest? More name calling?

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

not on the politics involved.

Politcs is everything in this career....

ALPA and that diickhead Prater sold us out.

Still name calling?

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Huck you nailed it. FJ too.

ALPA is nothing but a white towel waving, dues grabbing, corrupt organization.

"Guys, you are bound to get screwed, but just keep paying us. Thanks."

What then do you suggest? Replace ALPA with USA and there would be those who would cry treason..... Pilots are ready to rip off there black and white ID lanyard, wear their pin upside down or not at all. Maybe you want the FAA or management to represent your interests.

Too many pilots think ALPA is there personal career custodian..... For years the membership was apathetic... then issues come up and they want results... oh yeah you paid your dues


What then do you suggest!!!

 

[Phaedrus]

I feel like Bill Murray in some movie where he shared credits with Punxsutawney Phil...........

 

[d328pilot]

Too many pilots think ALPA is there personal career custodian..... For years the membership was apathetic... then issues come up and they want results... oh yeah you paid your dues

Well which is it Rez? Do you want guys involved or not??? They are voicing their opinions on where ALPA is heading and the majority is NOT happy at all.

In every post, you demean pilots for not getting involved. So what does one have to do to be involved enough? There are only so many positions people be elected or appointed to. What percentage of pilots are off in one given day to attend LEC meeting? There is a reason that people dont get involved in ALPA. No one listens to them anyways. It gets to the point that people say " aww f*ck it". That happened some time ago with ALPA.

You are damn right. They paid their hard earned money and expect something in return. But so far, the have got nothing.

 

[Black Hawk]

A lot of folks here need to wise up. The change is going to take place regardless of what some union majority may think. These are federal rules not union rules. Now that the writing is on the wall it's much smarter for ALPA to get on board and influence how the change is implemented. It's time for unions, contracts and pilots to adjust to the change.

 

[Neubyfly]

Where are the survey results!!!???