Alpa President John Prater's Video Response To Age 60

[airfogey]

Maybe if we have a totally honest poll it will be otherwise, Andy you are welcome to retire any time you want-but I look forward to being able to fly beyond age 60--even though I am far from there now and I don't know who much further I may want to. I think that if nobody was on furlough at all nationwide and everybody upgraded in 3 years I'm sure everybody would be for changing the rule.

Airfogey

 

[SSDD]

What I took from his message was that age 65 is coming with or without ALPA's support. The best ALPA can do is participate in the program to try to build in as many safeguards as possible.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

What I took from his message was that age 65 is coming with or without ALPA's support. The best ALPA can do is participate in the program to try to build in as many safeguards as possible.

Holy Pragmatism Batman! The realities of life!!

 

[seefive]

It doesn't matter whether anyone thinks it's a done deal. APA came out fighting and ALPA's Prater didn't. I'm all for the recall and will forward to my LEC. For you naive guys who support change and think that you're not going to lose the B fund and early retirement (55) option in future contracts, wake up and prepare to get hosed. Companies are going to say......work 'til 65, then the B fund, which was designed because of age 60 retirement, is gone. Early retirement will now be 60 too.

 

[Flopgut]

My experience with Prater tells me he's going to want to make sure this gets balanced out. Like age 60+ go to FO with a longish phase in, or FOs pay protected to fly with oldsters, or something similiar. If he doesn't do something like that he'll get recalled and he knows it! It will be his fellow CAL pilots that lead the charge, we recall everybody.

Hey Flybynite: Seems the guys who act the hardest toward their fellow pilots on this are usually total mgt suck ups. I bet if your CP made an abrupt stop your head would be half way up his a$$. You know, the whole "opposite of character" coping mechanism you Stockholm syndrom sufferers rely on. Can't see yourself getting tough with your employer in your remaining years so you'd rather rip off your fellow pilots...plus your boss will appreciate your efforts. Sad.

 

[PCL_128]

I think that, at this point, we need to organize a recall effort against Prater. He is not following the direction of the membership and is clearly in favor of this change.
The question is, are there enough pilots who are angry enough to organize and floor a resolution at their council meeting?

Whereas, the pilots of ________ support the current age 60 rule for safety, and,

Whereas, the majority of ALPA membership has supported the current age 60 rule, and,

Whereas, ALPA President Prater has publicly endorsed a change to the age 60 rule, and,

Let it be resolved that, the pilots of Council __ have passed a Vote of No Confidence in ALPA President Prater, and,

Further, let it be resolved, that the pilots of Council __ direct their council leaders to influence the ___ MEC to have ALPA President Prater removed from his current position and replaced with a President who will follow the direction of the majority of ALPA and support the current age 60 rule.


Alter as you see fit. At this point, it's the only way to get the message to ALPA national.

Wow. This is quite possibly the worst idea I've ever heard about anything.

 

[Skater]

Why is that a bad idea? You pay roughly two percent of your salary to a union that is supposed to represent the body and its wishes. Further, we live in America where voicing your oppionion is completely acceptable. Do you have some concern that by doing so you would somehow be black-balled by a union that supposedly has 70% of your brethern behind you? I don't see any reason why you wouldn't do something to voice your concern over his lack of support.

 

[Skater]

I think that if nobody was on furlough at all nationwide and everybody upgraded in 3 years I'm sure everybody would be for changing the rule.

Airfogey

You have been one of the biggest idiots with your posts since this started heavily getting talked about. But this is one of your worst. I think that if we all lived in a world with cigarette trees and chocolate streams on the big rock candy mountain, nobody would care about anything. What other great insight do you have in your unrealistic world?

 

[Phaedrus]

Skater, right on, right on.

 

[ASARJMan]

Maybe if we have a totally honest poll it will be otherwise,Airfogey

Exactly. Let's allow voting by ballot like everything else at ALPA, not some survey that a few responded to. In favor here!

 

[PCL_128]

Why is that a bad idea? You pay roughly two percent of your salary to a union that is supposed to represent the body and its wishes. Further, we live in America where voicing your oppionion is completely acceptable. Do you have some concern that by doing so you would somehow be black-balled by a union that supposedly has 70% of your brethern behind you? I don't see any reason why you wouldn't do something to voice your concern over his lack of support.

Voicing concern is one thing, but recalling the Association President is quite a jump from "voicing concern." I can think of a dozen different resolutions that would address this issue without calling for a recall. Recalling a President that has only been in office for a month simply because he is taking the pragmatic approach is simply asinine.

 

[A350]

PCL:

Careful there.....if Prater does an RTO, your nose might get broke!

If the man won't listen to the will of the pilots he represents, he does a disservice to the office and the profession. The problem with Woerth is that he let all the different groups do what they wanted, no direction at the top.

Now Prater is ignoring the majority of the pilots he represents.

I am not in favor of raising the age limit, but not because of the "safety" reasons ALPA has been spouting. But that is another topic.

A350

 

[Flopgut]

I'm still rooting for Prater, but this is a make or break issue. Too bad he got this right off the bat because I think he is one of the best to ever run ALPA.

Question about the video: In the UAL pilot scenario, I don't think the 37 year old FO can actually make up on retirement. If you consider current and past contracts, time value of money (lost by the FO), inflation, etc the FO can't make up what the captain is going to get. Certainly so if the FO wants to retire at 60! I don't think we owe these soon to be retired types that much! Especially when you consider it was the captains peers who sold out half the list and hundreds of millions dollars trying to save the A fund. AND it was this UAL captain's seniority group who sold out the FAL brothers and caused them to lose their A fund right after they had honored the UAL picket line.

I think five more years for this generation is too much, certainly in Prater's scenario: a furloughed war veteran vs. a pilot who caused a fellow union member to lose their fully funded A fund. Does it bother anyone else?

 

[Vne]

Yes it does.
Unfortunately ALPA National seems as Bankrupt as some of the airline managements .

 

[Freight Dog]

PCL, you're a Sec/Treas, am I right or are you an FO rep?

Here's the thing... if the majority of your LEC membership came to you with the resolution to recall Captain Prater, what would you do since we all know you are deadset against that?

 

[chase]

Didn't see this posted anywhere but here are the results from the SWAPA balloting on Age 60 that concluded coincidentally on at noon shortly before Blakely's luncheon in which she made her announcement. This is the third vote by SWAPA on this issue in 7+ years. The question was simple,

1. Do you support SWAPA efforts to seek repeal of the Age 60 Rule during the 110th Congress (2007- 2008)?

68.44% of members participated
59.51% voted yes
40.49% voted no

74.3 % of CA's voted yes
26.7 % of CA's voted no

42% of FO's voted yes
58% of FO's voted no

The overall percentages are nearly identical to the past two ('99 & '03) ballots on the same issue.

FYI.

 

[canyonblue]

68.44% of members participated

Pathetic. uke:

Now we have some guys actually stirring up the "let's talk about the guys who just miss the date" crap. At least on the bright side Chase has been doing a good job at keeping communications up to date, better than the last Administration that is still somewhere on Mt. Hood. Thanks again Chase, don't let the rabblers get to ya.

 

[PCL_128]

PCL, you're a Sec/Treas, am I right or are you an FO rep?

Sec/Treasurer. This is the third year of my term, though, so I'm up for reelection at the end of the year. I'll most likely be running for Captain Rep/Chairman this time around, but I haven't made a final decision on that yet.

Here's the thing... if the majority of your LEC membership came to you with the resolution to recall Captain Prater, what would you do since we all know you are deadset against that?

At the meeting I would do my best to convince the membership that that course of action would not be in their best interests, or in the best interest of the Association. If it still passed, then I would submit it to the MEC Chairman to be placed on the agenda for the next MEC meeting. At that point, it's up to the entire MEC body to determine a course of action. Why do you ask?

 

[Andy]

Wow. This is quite possibly the worst idea I've ever heard about anything.

Prater was VERY CLEAR in his pledge to the membership when he ran for office. He wanted age 60 to change, but would support the majority opinion of keeping it the same. He has broken that promise and he has chosen to use his position to push a minority agenda.

To paraphrase him from his video, 'This guy (Prater) doesn't get it.'

 

[Freight Dog]

I ask because Prater is doing just the opposite. The membership has spoken, and he hasn't done what the membership said.