Alpa President John Prater's Video Response To Age 60

[Rez O. Lewshun]

they [ALPA] have been done.

Hopefully for SWAPA's sake they are not. Where else are you going to buy finance data for contract negotiations? APA? IBT?

 

[aussiefly]

Actually RJMan, we all did have the opportunity, but only 37% participated. There was plenty of information put out, but most people didn't participate....

BS what about the furloughees and the probies??? Oh thats right they didnt get to vote and which side do you think they would have been on ???

ALPA is done. All you crusty senior guys can rule your liitle fiefdom but the younger generation is going to throw you under a bus when the time comes. You have screwed us all to many times.

 

[JoeMerchant]

BS what about the furloughees and the probies??? Oh thats right they didnt get to vote and which side do you think they would have been on ???

ALPA is done. All you crusty senior guys can rule your liitle fiefdom but the younger generation is going to throw you under a bus when the time comes. You have screwed us all to many times.

Aussiefly:
1. I'm not one of the "crusty senior guys" throwing you under a bus. I'm at a regional and I have 20 years left.

2. The information I posted was correct. It wasn't "BS". Only 37% of those eligible even bothered to participate. I don't think most people really care one way or the other.

3. It isn't just old guys throwing young guys under the bus. Look at mergers, scope, regional vs. mainline. There is an abundance of throwing other people under the bus in this profession....

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

BS what about the furloughees and the probies??? Oh thats right they didnt get to vote and which side do you think they would have been on ???

Why not be a good guy and think of why ALPA would not let them vote. Is there a valid reason....

ALPA is done. All you crusty senior guys can rule your liitle fiefdom but the younger generation is going to throw you under a bus when the time comes. You have screwed us all to many times.

Praters one month honeymoon over... ?? Quiter!

 

[aussiefly]

Aussiefly:
3. It isn't just old guys throwing young guys under the bus. Look at mergers, scope, regional vs. mainline. There is an abundance of throwing other people under the bus in this profession....

Fair Point Joe

P.S just had someone question me as to how I could have an opinion etc. Just to clarify this is my little brothers account so dont attribute my ramblings to him and i've also been 121 for sometime.

 

[PCL_128]

Was that the poll that only 1/3 of the entire membership participated?

If they don't vote, then they've marginalized themselves. They get no sympathy from me if they refuse to participate in the process. The membership that bothered to vote made it quite clear where they stand on this issue. That's what matters.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

The membership that bothered to vote made it quite clear where they stand on this issue. That's what matters.

The membership that did bother is a minority. The majority is aloof....

That allows the leadership to do as they wish.....

 

[PCL_128]

The membership that did bother is a minority. The majority is aloof....

That allows the leadership to do as they wish.....

Sorry, but that's just BS. The leadership can't simply do as they wish just because a large portion of the membership isn't involved. Let's say that a Local Council meeting is held and only 10% of the members are present., The membership present votes on a resolution that requires the LEC leaders to take the resolution to the MEC for discussion. Do the LEC leaders simply ignore the resolution because only 10% of the members bothered to show up and be involved? Of course not. This is no different. The membership was given the opportunity to speak their mind on this issue, the membership directed us, and we should do as directed.

 

[JoeMerchant]

I love watching two ALPA true believers argue about ALPA....

 

[redbook]

And your point? Not smug, but last I checked it's a free country and I too can contact my union pres, and representatives on how I feel about eliminating the 60 age restriction. Sorry I don't have the same belief you do.

Fair enough. I retract my barb, and apologize. Congrats on your win. I guess I misinterpreted your statement as a type of taunting.

 

[redbook]

Sorry, but that's just BS. The leadership can't simply do as they wish just because a large portion of the membership isn't involved. Let's say that a Local Council meeting is held and only 10% of the members are present., The membership present votes on a resolution that requires the LEC leaders to take the resolution to the MEC for discussion. Do the LEC leaders simply ignore the resolution because only 10% of the members bothered to show up and be involved? Of course not. This is no different. The membership was given the opportunity to speak their mind on this issue, the membership directed us, and we should do as directed.

Nice last two posts PCL. I think the membership of any organization would be enamored with that type of leadership and you would see participation increase.

 

[Quimby]

change age 60?uke:


lets hope it doesn't get past the NPRM stage. Something tells me it will at some point though.

 

[vetteracer]

Copy of the email I sent to Capt Prater yesterday:

Captain Prater:

I am a pilot at FedEx and member of ALPA in good standing. In light of today's announcement and your statements in the past, I feel compelled to write to you to express my concern over this possible change.

I am sure that you are aware of the many sides of this issue. I realize that you are close to Age 60 and thus this issue is probably in the forefront of your personal situation.

As an elected official of ALPA, however, it is your duty (of course you know this) to represent the will of the union you were elected to represent. That union has spoken loud and clearly that the majority of the members are opposed to a change to the Age 60 rule. Now it might not make any difference what our union members think and this rule change will be forced upon us either way.

THAT does not change your responsibility to LEAD the union and its members in our OPPOSITION to this rule change. It should not be a complacent, lackadaisical leadership Captain, you should lead the charge up the hill and not rest until this change is defeated.

I implore you to LEAD the charge in adamant OPPOSITION to this proposed change. To do anything less than your best to preserve the careers of the majority of our union's members is a failure to fulfill the obligations of the office to which you were elected.

Again, Captain, REGARDLESS of your personal views on this matter, the UNION is adamantly opposed to this rule change. I fully expect that you will do everything in your ability to represent the will of the majority of your constituents and ensure that this change is thwarted.

Thank you for your service Captain, I look forward to hearing a more determined stance on your part against the Age 60 change.

Fraternally,

XXX
FedEx
ALPA # xxxxxxx


I do not have a warm and fuzzy at all about Captain Praters ability to represent the will of the majority of the members on this issue. It is obvious he is for a change. Not a good sign in my opinion.

FJ

Nicely Written. I am not a member, and being part 135 my dog in this fight is on the sidelines, but I applaude your efforts. I would like to get on with SWA or FedEx, and I am all for waiting my turn and paying my dues, but this will really slow the hiring down IMO.

-Mark

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Sorry, but that's just BS. The leadership can't simply do as they wish just because a large portion of the membership isn't involved. Let's say that a Local Council meeting is held and only 10% of the members are present., The membership present votes on a resolution that requires the LEC leaders to take the resolution to the MEC for discussion. Do the LEC leaders simply ignore the resolution because only 10% of the members bothered to show up and be involved? Of course not. This is no different. The membership was given the opportunity to speak their mind on this issue, the membership directed us, and we should do as directed.

I'll raise you two oranges to your apple.......

LEC meetings are different in that a majority of the membership can't be expected to be present. They are flying, at thier house, on vacation...etc...

That is why elections are done via telephone and intranet over a given period of time... So that all members have an opprotunity to particapte in the election. IOW they don't have an excuse for not particpating. While the survey was not an election the same logic applies. Plenty of opportunity and no excuses.

As far as Rez O. Lewshuns.... the membership can move thier legislation to the MEC and beyond.. but they cannot direct thier representatives how to vote.

When I was a status rep I solicted the membership months in advance to provide direction at the up comming BOD. Not one word. I had carte blanc at the BOD as an elected official to do whatever I wanted. Now as a repsonsible official I did right by my membership... but they saying of "those who ignore politics are destined to be ruled by thier inferiors" applies.

Or in the case of Age60... not enough pilots cared to survey and now its not going your way.... Look in the mirror......

I love watching two ALPA true believers argue about ALPA....

That is right Joe. I am a true believer....

I believe that representation, whether it be ALPA or a new union, is the only way we can make our profession better...

I believe in making this profession better than I found it...

I believe in my fellow pilot and will do anything to support him.



PCL128 is a smart guy and does quality ALPA work for his pilot group.. I trust the guy and respect him.... He has done more ALPA work than most 20+ year mainline pilots...

We need to have a difference of opinion! Just cause PCL128 and I have a difference of opinion means nothing! Everyone brings something to the table! We have to work the issues together and then address the issue as a unified front.

 

[PCL_128]

That is why elections are done via telephone and intranet over a given period of time... So that all members have an opprotunity to particapte in the election. IOW they don't have an excuse for not particpating. While the survey was not an election the same logic applies. Plenty of opportunity and no excuses.

Exactly. The membership had an opportunity to voice their opposition to the age-60 policy, and they chose not to. That means that the current policy should stand. Just because a majority of the membership is apathetic and doesn't want to take ownership of their careers doesn't mean that we ignore the clear direction that the participating members have given us.

I believe that representation, whether it be ALPA or a new union, is the only way we can make our profession better...

I believe in making this profession better than I found it...

I believe in my fellow pilot and will do anything to support him.We need to have a difference of opinion! Just cause PCL128 and I have a difference of opinion means nothing! Everyone brings something to the table! We have to work the issues together and then address the issue as a unified front.

Couldn't agree more. You see, Joe Merchant, we work within the system and debate the important issues the right way. We have differences of opinion, but we settle them in a constructive manner and move on. I wish you and your friends in the RJDC could learn to do the same. Smart guys like Fins would be a great asset to the Association if they focused on productive methods instead of lawsuits and attacks.

 

[LJDRVR]

And yes, he was, is, and always will be a scab.

No, he's not. Try doing a little research before you throw that word around. How old were you in 78 when he was hired? Or 83 when he walked the picket line?

Punk.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Exactly. The membership had an opportunity to voice their opposition to the age-60 policy, and they chose not to. That means that the current policy should stand. Just because a majority of the membership is apathetic and doesn't want to take ownership of their careers doesn't mean that we ignore the clear direction that the participating members have given us.

Well..........

Since there is no written guidance on this it seems a difference in leadership style... one not better than the other....

Times change.... adapt or be left behind....

The Age 60 issue is being pushed by other organizations other than within ALPA. ALPA has to address the issues with industry...

I don't think ALPA can sit down the FAA, ATA and others and say.... our members are apathetic so we are going to leave the status quo as is.....

 

[AAflyer]

Well..........

Since there is no written guidance on this it seems a difference in leadership style... one not better than the other....

Times change.... adapt or be left behind....

The Age 60 issue is being pushed by other organizations other than within ALPA. ALPA has to address the issues with industry...

I don't think ALPA can sit down the FAA, ATA and others and say.... our members are apathetic so we are going to leave the status quo as is.....

Rez,

I find enjoyment in learning new things daily, especially about people and events from our profession. I just looked up Bill Hopson. Thought i would post what I found, not to stray to far from thread topic, but we all need union representation in some form.

Thanks AAflyer

The members of ALPA’s Board of Directors assembled in Florida in October were acutely aware that our profession is at a crossroads. One path leads easily to a world of pilots undercutting each other in a race to the bottom, scrambling to hold on to an ever-diminishing piece of the pie. The other path leads through darkness and over rough road to a hard but attainable recovery.

In my report I challenged the delegates to decide—together—which road we would take. I asked whether we would remember the sources of our collective strength or throw in the towel. By the end of that important week together, we concluded that only one option is available to us. It may be the harder road to take, but it is the only one that leads to a career worth pursuing.

Fortunately, that road has trail marks left by the pioneers of our union and deepened by those who followed that path across the decades. The secret of ALPA’s success is no secret and no accident. It is the result of a well-crafted economic and political strategy born decades ago.

ALPA’s first president, Capt. Dave Behncke, was Franklin Roosevelt’s closest advisor on aviation. Behncke wooed Congress around the clock, helping to pass legislation that institutionalized our economic strategy. ALPA’s special relationship with Roosevelt led to pilot pay increases as aircraft became larger, carried more, and flew faster and farther. The piloting profession rode atop the productivity wave despite management efforts to scuttle our contract standards.

Over the decades, management shifted its methods of attack, but its goal remained the same: to split pilots from one another. Today, airline brands employ elaborate strategies to get pilots who work for separate companies to compete for work on a "lowest bid" basis. Of all the challenges vexing us in the first years of the 21st century, this may be the greatest. If we accept the status quo, the race to the bottom will continue. But if we join together, some group of pilots within one brand will develop a prototype model that stops the bleeding. If "necessity," indeed, is the mother of invention, we have all the "necessity" we need to invent that new model.

Like those who came before us, this generation will never forget and will never quit. The FedEx pilots have a steely resolve and determination to advance this profession. Comair pilots didn’t strike for three months just to wave the white flag and give it all back at the first sign of trouble. Pilots from more than a dozen airlines braved below-zero wind chills to support Mesaba pilots’ demands for a scope clause and better pay. ExpressJet pilots stuck to their principles—and concluded a breakthrough agreement with massive gains in all areas.

The fire burning inside airline pilots has not dimmed with adversity, but glows with even greater intensity. Our leather-tough pilots who have suffered deep cuts, furloughs, or bankruptcy are developing new strategies to go back on the offensive. If managements mistake these tactical retreats for surrender, they’re in for a surprise. Our confidence in the future is well founded. International traffic will grow solidly for decades. Domestic yields will recover. Ten to fifteen dollars of current crude oil prices are based on fear alone.

Our confidence is bolstered by our past. In 1928, air-mail pilot and ALPA icon Bill Hopson died because "Schedule with Safety" was just a dream. In 1931, Behncke and his "key men" formed this union in the midst of the Great Depression. Those founders knew who they were and what they stood for. They had learned through bitter experience that no airline would be loyal to them. They would always be expendable. Nearly half of those "key men" died in airplane crashes.

In the twilight of 2004, when the word "legacy" has been contorted into a slur, when carpetbagger managements squander world-class airlines, when a pilot’s worth is calculated by bean counters in pennies of unit costs, we must return to those roots—and stand shoulder to shoulder as one. We will not—cannot—fail those giants. We’re going to start right here, right now, to show the world that the 21st-century pilots of ALPA do have the right stuff and understand the power of unity. We will never forget. We will never quit.

 

[Freight Dog]

Rez.... do you know the percentage of American people voting for president?

When you find out, report back on frequency. The number will surprise you.
Let's suppose that only 38% of Americans come out and vote for the national elections. The majority of them vote for McCain. Given that the Congress is now predominately Dems, should the Dems be like... ah no, this is not representative of all Americans, so we're putting Hillary in charge?

Think about it...

If you didn't care enough to vote, and/or take the poll, you wasted your vote.

 

[big_al]

so 66% of 37.6% want age 60 to remain...
That is 24% of 66,000 or 15,840 members. Hardly a true representation. Could one argue that only 24% want Age 60 so that is a minority. The other 50K don't care or want it changed.

The Keep Age 60 crowd is the minority....



How can Prater lead when there is no followership....

You guys are weak....


Somebody school me!!!

well only 40% of the 50% of American voters voted for our current President yet we were supposed to call them the majority... I fail to see how your twisting around of numbers is any different?