ALPA MEC tells Gary Kelly no thanks..again

[redflyer65]

Looks like Gary was requesting a 6 month delay to give negotiations more time, yet ALPA says thanks but no thanks again.

This should be good.

 

[GuppyWN]

You can't cure stupid. I guess ALPA is implementing their scorched earth policy. All or nothing. I am concerned for the AirTran crewmembers that care about their future.

Gup

 

[BILL LUMBERG]

Cmon Gup.....

You agreed to a process.....so let the "process" play out!

 

[GuppyWN]

My boss asked for time to NEGOTIATE A SETTLEMENT. I would prefer to go back to 9/26/2010 but we can't. I would think it prudent to listen to your future boss when he's trying to help you.

But that's just me I guess.

Gup

 

[Roomwithaview]

Geez Gang

Not out for five seconds and it's already on FLIFO.

Good thing no one's in charge of the nuclear secrets. Funny how the furlough rumor thread's been on the poon the whole day and nary a peep about that. Thought that showed some class.

 

[redflyer65]

The process seems to be ALPA stepping on their crank and 1700 Trannies watching in bewilderment. I would say ALPA is going to make Gary's decision pretty easy in the end. Good job ALPA!

 

[DougCorp-9]

Anyone care to post the source?

 

[CaptainKiwi]

Strike 2... Or is it 3? I lost count...

 

[pork]

Digging their own grave

 

[Roomwithaview]

It's legit

Won't post internal stuff. I hold no ill will against the MEC. They're doing their job. Everyone agreed to a timeline and just because things aren't working out the way one side of the three-sided triangle thought it was it doesn't mean the other two sides have to put their lives on hold.

 

[Hose A. Jiminez]

Way to show the boss who's boss guys!!! Good on ya'!!!

 

[DUBLINFLYER]

More Delay = more money for ALPA

ALPA stands to make an additional $300K per month in dues as long as they represent the AT pilots, why would they kill of the GOOSE so quickly, they appear to be only interested in their coffers not the pilots

 

[chase]

It is dangerous to jump into internal union politics of other pilot unions; but in this case I urge every AAI pilot who wishes to see a negotiated settlement for an SLI, call your reps. I believe an extension will ensure them the best chance of getting on the SWA seniority list with the least damage to all sides and I urge you to call your MEC reps to reconsider this request from GK.

You have nothing to lose and everything to gain at finding a negotiated settlement vs. the possibility of an arbitrated settlement. I won't recite GK's newsline quote as I know it will rile some persons up but GK has offered a possible path to find a negotiated settlement by reaching out with this request....I urge you to consider this "delay" as a hand reaching out to help make this all workout.

I hope you will consider the denial of GK's request by ALPA as counter to the best interests of the "majority" of the AAI pilots.

I apologize in advance if AAI pilots feel my advice is not needed or of value. Please reconsider and allow discussions to continue for the long-term fiscal health of your pilot group and for the long term cultural health of SWA once this is all done.

My $.02.

 

[RLAblows]

I believe they should take as much time as they need, but six months seems a little excessive. After all, we did get the AIP done in about a month, so I'm not for sure why six months would be needed to fix a few things. I don't think we are as far off as you might think. Our MEC screwed up by not sending the AIP out for the pilots to review. I think if they need extra time once they begin negotiations they'll get it.


Chase, that's good advise. Unfortunately as you've seen we never get a choice on anything.

 

[WSurf]

And whats wrong with straight date of hire? Nobody's furloughed!!! Easy!!!

 

[MILF Hunter]

We are witnessing the wheels coming off the ATN ALPA bus!!

I'm sure that any day now we will here of recalls for the MEC reps that voted the AIP down. Next, we will here a group of desperate trannies begging SWA for another shot at a negotiated deal. At some point in there, PCL (you know, the new Comm Chair and EVP of national) will say that these beggars are weak, and don't have the right to negotiate with SWA or SWAPA. What happens next is hard to say...maybe an airline in Atlanta acquires 717s, maybe some foreign airlines takes them, and SWA announces more 737 orders.

 

[Cruncher]

More Delay = more money for ALPA

Wouldn't it behoove ALPA to accept the 6 month extension?

 

[malibuVride]

Recalls, audits, more recalls, mediation for 5+ years, more recalls, a new union, still no contract, acquisition, new contract, recall attempts, no transition agreement, process agreement, no process agreement, process agreement...again, AIP, no AIP.
Quite an embarrasing couple of years to say the least!

Next is: recalls, complete meltdown! It's just completely shameful!!

 

[redflyer65]

They are trying to play hardball with SWAPA and Gary. I would say that Gary is pretty close to showing them the door. Does he really want this type of divisiveness at Southwest? I'm pretty sure he's thinking it over.

 

[redflyer65]

Recalls, audits, more recalls, mediation for 5+ years, more recalls, a new union, still no contract, acquisition, new contract, recall attempts, no transition agreement, process agreement, no process agreement, process agreement...again, AIP, no AIP.
Quite an embarrasing couple of years to say the least!

Next is: recalls, complete meltdown! It's just completely shameful!!

Malibu,

I have to agree. I remember during the last recall that the AAI guys were already trying to cover their six. You know..nothing to see here, business as usual. Then a few defections later, and the 3 week stint over the AIP and now this. CLASSIC!

 

[EL10]

This totally does baffles me from the outside so please help explain.

GK says he needs time to come up with plan “B” for integration/something else. Then he states he needed this done as quick as possible. Now he is asking for a delay to strike a deal? Why do you need six months when you have medication coming up?

Now maybe AAI boxed themselves into this unfortunate corner by not allowing the negotiated deal to get voted on. Dammed if you give them time to change the business model and not integrate AAI. Dammed if they go to arbitration.

I do not think any Luv will be going around when they lay off 1700 pilots.

 

[Empennage]

Wouldn't it behoove ALPA to accept the 6 month extension?

How do you think arbitration and transition work?

 

[redflyer65]

Unfortunately I see those notices coming right around the corner. Within two weeks maybe?

 

[N1atEcon]

when you have medication coming up?

Who has medication coming up, is it catchy? Do we need penicillin?

 

[Wolf King]

And whats wrong with straight date of hire? Nobody's furloughed!!! Easy!!!

I wouldn't mind date of hire, since it means our guys upgrade into the left seat, and many of AT get booted back right. Remember we have 10 and 11 year F/O's on property. However, this will never fly for so many reasons. AT guys being younger for one (can you say turnover?). This is not an aquisition of equals, which is what DOH means. The two jobs are not equal, as the many who left there for SWA already can attest. Should we all just get on a national seniority list so that whenever an airline fails, you get to jump above others at the next company? In spite of the socialist programs that many of you are banking on to save your skins (arbitration), this is still a capitalistic society, and our CEO will have the last word, especially if SWAPA cooperates. We are SWAPA, and we are collectively moving towards staple. The next step is complete interview process, where you can fight amongst yourselves for your seniority in the staple if you get here at all.

 

[jonjuan]

ALPA stepping on their crank

jealous?

 

[nimtz]

Unfortunately I see those notices coming right around the corner. Within two weeks maybe?

Do you realize just how much you make all LUV guys look like 21st century sky nazis?

 

[Cometman]

Do you realize just how much you make all LUV guys look like 21st century sky nazis?

Nothing you would not be doing if the shoe was on the other foot.

 

[Andy]

This totally does baffles me from the outside so please help explain.

GK says he needs time to come up with plan “B” for integration/something else. Then he states he needed this done as quick as possible. Now he is asking for a delay to strike a deal? Why do you need six months when you have medication coming up?

Now maybe AAI boxed themselves into this unfortunate corner by not allowing the negotiated deal to get voted on. Dammed if you give them time to change the business model and not integrate AAI. Dammed if they go to arbitration.

I do not think any Luv will be going around when they lay off 1700 pilots.

If I were GK, I'd be shopping around the 717s so that section 45 of ALPO's Administrative Policy applied - Merger and Fragmentation Policy

Excerpt:

PART 4 – CARRIER FRAGMENTATION POLICY​

A. INTERPRETATION OF CARRIER FRAGMENTATION POLICY



Issues as to interpretation of Carrier Fragmentation Policy shall be determined by the Executive Council.

A. APPLICATION OF CARRIER FRAGMENTATION POLICY



Fragmentation policy shall apply if an acquiring ALPA carrier declares an intent to acquire assets of another ALPA carrier, and the acquiring carrier agrees to employ any of the other carrier’s pilots in conjunction with the assets it acquires and to integrate transferring pilots in accordance with ALPA Merger Policy or an otherwise mutually satisfactory substitute process. In the event a carrier does not intend to employ and integrate transferring pilots in accordance with ALPA Merger Policy, or an otherwise mutually satisfactory substitute process, the President shall urge the acquiring carrier to do so.
C. IDENTIFICATION OF PILOTS TO BE TRANSFERRED

Provided that Part 4B above is satisfied, absent a definitive determination by the carriers concerned of how many and which pilots will transfer, questions of number and identity, of the pilots to be involved in said move shall be determined by the merger representatives using negotiation, mediation, and arbitration if necessary, in accordance with the procedures in Part 3 above, or modifications thereof approved by the Executive Council, subject to negotiation and agreement with management.

So you'd need to shop the 717s to another ALPO carrier. Perhaps Air Wisconsin, Atlantic Southeast, Colgan, Comair, CommutAir, Compass, ExpressJet, Mesa Air Group, Mesaba, Piedmont, Pinnacle, or Trans States.
Agree to give the acquiring carrier a juicy feed contract to operate the 717s until the leases expire.
That would solve 2/3s of your pilot integration issues right there since 2/3s of AirTran's pilots would be going to the new ALPO carrier with the metal.

 

[On Your Six]

ALPA stands to make an additional $300K per month in dues as long as they represent the AT pilots, why would they kill of the GOOSE so quickly, they appear to be only interested in their coffers not the pilots

Are they delaying it, or expediting the eventual list via arbitration? GK wanted 6 more months, and if it didn't work then, it would go even longer. Wouldn't that make ALPA even more money? I think they want this over with, and they think they will get a better position on that SLI. The rest of the employees at AT wants the merger to go through, and the pilots know that also. This is gonna be interesting to watch!



OYS