ALPA MEC tells Gary Kelly no thanks..again

[On Your Six]

ALPA stands to make an additional $300K per month in dues as long as they represent the AT pilots, why would they kill of the GOOSE so quickly, they appear to be only interested in their coffers not the pilots

Are they delaying it, or expediting the eventual list via arbitration? GK wanted 6 more months, and if it didn't work then, it would go even longer. Wouldn't that make ALPA even more money? I think they want this over with, and they think they will get a better position on that SLI. The rest of the employees at AT wants the merger to go through, and the pilots know that also. This is gonna get crazy!



OYS

 

[GuppyWN]

So you'd need to shop the 717s to another ALPO carrier. Perhaps Air Wisconsin, Atlantic Southeast, Colgan, Comair, CommutAir, Compass, ExpressJet, Mesa Air Group, Mesaba, Piedmont, Pinnacle, or Trans States.
Agree to give the acquiring carrier a juicy feed contract to operate the 717s until the leases expire.
That would solve 2/3s of your pilot integration issues right there since 2/3s of AirTran's pilots would be going to the new ALPO carrier with the metal.

Andy,

With all due respect..... codeshare is a cancer I'd rather not spread. Look what has happened to this industry because of it.

Gup

 

[On Your Six]

We are witnessing the wheels coming off the ATN ALPA bus!!

I'm sure that any day now we will here of recalls for the MEC reps that voted the AIP down. Next, we will here a group of desperate trannies begging SWA for another shot at a negotiated deal. At some point in there, PCL (you know, the new Comm Chair and EVP of national) will say that these beggars are weak, and don't have the right to negotiate with SWA or SWAPA. What happens next is hard to say...maybe an airline in Atlanta acquires 717s, maybe some foreign airlines takes them, and SWA announces more 737 orders.

If your offer wasn't so much of a turd, maybe it wouldn't have gotten this far? I think most AT pilots probably want to see where this will play out, especially after all of the backlash and taking money off the table BS. Yeah, that was great that 1000 SWA pilots all "mulled around" with management after the ALPA vote..... They looked great, MULLING AROUND.....



OYS

 

[GuppyWN]

This message is hidden because On Your Six is on your ignore list.

Gup

 

[easydoesit]

I have been told that Steve Chase has fibbed. SWAPA asked for the extension,not GK

 

[On Your Six]

I wouldn't mind date of hire, since it means our guys upgrade into the left seat, and many of AT get booted back right. Remember we have 10 and 11 year F/O's on property. However, this will never fly for so many reasons. AT guys being younger for one (can you say turnover?). This is not an aquisition of equals, which is what DOH means. The two jobs are not equal, as the many who left there for SWA already can attest. Should we all just get on a national seniority list so that whenever an airline fails, you get to jump above others at the next company? In spite of the socialist programs that many of you are banking on to save your skins (arbitration), this is still a capitalistic society, and our CEO will have the last word, especially if SWAPA cooperates. We are SWAPA, and we are collectively moving towards staple. The next step is complete interview process, where you can fight amongst yourselves for your seniority in the staple if you get here at all.

You are delusional. Ever hear of Bond/McKaskil? It is a law that prevents stapling. But, I suggest you suggest that method to the arbitrators during the opening statements of possible arbitration. That would be hillarious. All of the other employee groups at AT are probably ready to integrate and can't wait to be a part of SWA. I wonder if ALPA knows that? Hmmm.



OYS

 

[bluebound]

AAI pilots, no matter how you felt about the AIP, now is a good time to reflect on how well you feel your union has represented YOU. Did they do the right thing for YOU? Are YOU confident they will represent your interests in the future? These are important questions to be asking now. Is the future you invision for your airline the same future ALPA invasions for your airline? If your answers are no to these questions, take action so you can answer yes. Time is running out.

 

[pork]

What section of Bond/McAskill prevents stapling? Can you post it here?

 

[Wolf King]

You are delusional. Ever hear of Bond/McKaskil? It is a law that prevents stapling. But, I suggest you suggest that method to the arbitrators during the opening statements of possible arbitration. That would be hillarious. All of the other employee groups at AT are probably ready to integrate and can't wait to be a part of SWA. I wonder if ALPA knows that? Hmmm.



OYS

You mean staple in the traditional sense? That would be difficult under the socialistic protections of which you speak. I am well aware of B/M. I am suggesting that due to worsening economic conditions (do you doubt they will continue to spiral downward, while oil climbs?), the unprofitability of the 717 in our model in general, and countless other factors... there are other scenarious that amount to something even worse than a staple, do you disagree? Do you see no scenario where those unviable assets are sold, and the pilots go with them? If not, what about furlough when SWA proper is hiring?(by the way, I hope you ATN captains have been nice to your F/O's, cause they would logically be the first to be rehired by SWA, how's that for a reshuffling of seniority?!...happens all the time in this industry). Perhaps a 6 month cooling (negotiating) period would be a good thing just to get a clearer look at the economic outlook. By the way, what do you make of the fact that SWA iron and pilots are now entering Atlanta, sure seems like the term "outsourcing" isn't a strong enough word to me. Come on, dude, what does that say to you? If you don't get that, your logic tree has had a few too many branches cut.

I will not gloat if any of these predictions resemble the fate of ATN, but you sure put a lot of faith in our government to protect these guys from themselves. I put a whole lot more faith in our management not to allow this company to self destruct, and I can guarantee the average line pilot will do whatever it takes to back our management on those incredibly smart decisions.

 

[Andy]

Andy,

With all due respect..... codeshare is a cancer I'd rather not spread. Look what has happened to this industry because of it.

Gup

Finite time period; applied only until the end of the 717 leases. The Airtran 10k stated that 717 leases are up to 10 years. The first 717 was leased in 1999.

Edit: I'm sure that the 717 pilots could get their choice of relative seniority or date of hire at the acquiring carrier. They'd probably take a pay cut but they've already stated that pay doesn't matter; it's all about seniority.

 

[Dude]

I have been told that Steve Chase has fibbed. SWAPA asked for the extension,not GK

Three FACTS about Steve Chase.
1. He has a mustache
2. He is a Captain
3. He is not a liar

Three FACTS about the AirTran MEC.
1. They are both male and female
2. They are a dysfunctional group
3. They are misguided and ill-prepared

 

[BILL LUMBERG]

Three Facts about Dude...

1) Likes Men.
2) Think he's smart.
3) Bends over Goats.

 

[Dude]

What I do with other men, goats and my dumbass on my own time is none of your business.

 

[slaquer5]

Three Facts about Dude...

1) Likes Men.
2) Think he's smart.
3) Bends over Goats.

Funny I was thinking that is what you like, bill aka dumb azz

except even you, don't think your smart.

 

[Whataburger]

What I do with other men, goats and my dumbass on my own time is none of your business.

Yep, +1.

 

[GuppyWN]

Finite time period; applied only until the end of the 717 leases. The Airtran 10k stated that 717 leases are up to 10 years. The first 717 was leased in 1999.

Edit: I'm sure that the 717 pilots could get their choice of relative seniority or date of hire at the acquiring carrier. They'd probably take a pay cut but they've already stated that pay doesn't matter; it's all about seniority.

While I may agree with your theory in concept I would be highly suspect of the attitude of the crews knowing there time was limited and how that would transfer to the Southwest Customer that I so dearly appreciate. Matter of fact I already put that very near the top of my list of concerns going forward.

Gup

 

[mt2]

Nothing you would not be doing if the shoe was on the other foot.

And it was just a few years ago. Air Tran wanted to buy ATA's MDW gates and assets and build up a MDW hub. They couldn't get enough AT people together to do that overnight so their offer to ATA pilots and FA's was despicable: ATA's people could continue to fly the "new" Air Tran routes out of MDW but only until Air Tran got their own people hired/upgraded to take over. The ATA people would then get preferential interviews.....wow, what a deal. Instead Herb came in and struck a different deal, keeping ATA peeps employed for way longer than the Air Tran plan would have.

My how attitudes change when the shoe is on the other foot !!

 

[thruthemurk]

..... The ATA people would then get preferential interviews.....wow, what a deal. Instead Herb came in and struck a different deal, keeping ATA peeps employed for way longer than the Air Tran plan would have.....

My how attitudes change when the shoe is on the other foot !!

Yeah, Herb is truly a God. I bet those ATA employees that kept their jobs longer before they were sh!tcanned just worship his name every day. I know pilots that feel blessed by their preferential interview. How many were hired again?

 

[kwick]

They are trying to play hardball with SWAPA and Gary. I would say that Gary is pretty close to showing them the door. Does he really want this type of divisiveness at Southwest? I'm pretty sure he's thinking it over.

Or he can treat his new employees
with the wisdom of "The Golden Rule"
He claims to be a religious man, if
he makes the effort to have a fair SLI,
Southwest benefits in the long run.

 

[scoreboardII]

Or he can treat his new employees
with the wisdom of "The Golden Rule"
He claims to be a religious man, if
he makes the effort to have a fair SLI,
Southwest benefits in the long run.

I'll say it once more, that rule works both ways, so who has said no twice now?

 

[runner46]

The aai mec did not deny any request for a 6 month extension. I asked the whole mec this specific question yesterday. Swapa asked for the request and mediator Dana eischon denied their request. Swa and aai want this wrapped up. Swapa is trying to delay.

 

[Bake]

Or he can treat his new employees
with the wisdom of "The Golden Rule"
He claims to be a religious man, if
he makes the effort to have a fair SLI,
Southwest benefits in the long run.

Kwick, so let me ask you this. If he doesn't make an effort to have what YOU consider to be a FAIR SLI, he is not a religious man? Is that correct or did you have a different meaning?

 

[Cruncher]

Runner,

This was taken from our official correspondence:

... During our [NC] meeting we learned that Southwest Airlines has requested a 6-month delay in the arbitration process and ALPA turned down their request. ...

So either our NC is blatantly lying to the entire SWAPA membership, or your MEC is trying to save a little face talking with 1 guy.

Also, why would Mr. Eischen have anything to do with an extension, unless of course he has a new Porsche payment coming up and needs the $$ now!

The extension was asked of ATN-ALPA by SWA and ATN-ALPA denied said request. But by all means, believe whatever you want.

 

[redflyer65]

Cruncher,

I tink you nailed it. The MEC is going to deny this until the cows come home. Maybe a statement from Mr Kelly would clear things up.....yet again.

RF

 

[roughneck]

I trust SWAPA and SWA. ALPA declined the offer according to a SWA management pilot I know. Not the smartest move considering GK's concern about the economy. ALPA keeps making Gary's decisions easier.

 

[USMC319]

Oooohhh, you guys got Eischen. SWAPA better make sure he's not the arbitrator or they will be hosed big time. He is very smart but delusional. Make sure to do a three man panel.

 

[HalinTexas]

And it was just a few years ago. Air Tran wanted to buy ATA's MDW gates and assets and build up a MDW hub. They couldn't get enough AT people together to do that overnight so their offer to ATA pilots and FA's was despicable: ATA's people could continue to fly the "new" Air Tran routes out of MDW but only until Air Tran got their own people hired/upgraded to take over. The ATA people would then get preferential interviews.....wow, what a deal. Instead Herb came in and struck a different deal, keeping ATA peeps employed for way longer than the Air Tran plan would have.

My how attitudes change when the shoe is on the other foot !!

NOT true.

After the FL offer, and before the WN offer, HP (AWA) came in with an offer. It was accepted. However, mysteriously, after all parties agreed to terms, including the financing, the financing people backed out. I can't remember, but I think it was TPG that backed out. We were told that it was because Parker didn't really want the B737-800s, but that was not confirmed. What is true is that within a couple of days Herb called George up with an offer. Rumors abounded that Herb had something to do with it. George tells the employees he was going to go back to the FL offer had the WN deal not come about. This was during our concessionary talks.

FL would have "pillaged" ATA.

WN actually did.

Nothing personal. It's just the airline business.

 

[jonjuan]

I'll say it once more, that rule works both ways, so who has said no twice now?

Leadership and respect starts from the top.

 

[vixin]

There is a 3 person panel.

 

[slaquer5]

Oooohhh, you guys got Eischen. SWAPA better make sure he's not the arbitrator or they will be hosed big time. He is very smart but delusional. Make sure to do a three man panel.

Are you 100% idiot, or just crawl out from under a rock? I have see you post, so I know you are not new to the SWA forums