ALPA loses at Skywest

[Erlanger]

You all talk about how useless SAPA is but they have managed to keep our pay very competitive and the work rules at the very top. If ALPA is so great then why is the pay and work rules at most regionals subpar to Skywest? ALPA is the very organization that negotiated these contracts.

 

[capt. megadeth]

SAPA is useless.

Sorry Rick but I gotta agree here.

Mod Edit: Capt Megadeath... Watch the creative spelling and the vulgar comments. I don't feel like giving anyone a vacation today. It'as alot of effort to do stuff like that. You know that was beyond the limits of what is allowed here, you are no newbie.
:laugh:

 

[capt. megadeth]

Does SKYW have ASAP?

Yes they do.

 

[Soverytired]

The problem is... no one will admit they are in the 66%Klub....

Why in god's name should they? And why would you ever ask them? A secret ballot is a fundamental concept of a democratic society.

There are a fair amount of hard working pro-ALPA guys who just worked hard and feel like they just got punched in the gut. Why would anyone want to rub their face in it? Hardly good CRM to be picking a fight.

There is a fair amount of trepidation from a lot of anti-ALPA guys who don't want to deal with "lists" or "scab" calls either . . . why would anyone subject themselves to that from the 1% of the hard-core ALPA guys who are certifiable?

 

[Gandalf]

You all talk about how useless SAPA is but they have managed to keep our pay very competitive and the work rules at the very top. If ALPA is so great then why is the pay and work rules at most regionals subpar to Skywest? ALPA is the very organization that negotiated these contracts.

Competitive pay, yeah - How about the 70/90 pay? That is competitive?! Remember all the broken promises? How about that 18 month TA to get the 70s on property - and then the pay increase? Did that happen? How about COLA? How about that 1% raise that we just got in 07' for 4 YEARS? Wait, I seem to remember a pay proposal in Oct. 05' for 1.2%. It is only .2% - BUT WTF? Going Backwards?!

Inflation = 3%: 1 doesn't equal 3.

How about QOL issues?

Do really think BH, JA, and CC are going to wake up tomorrow and say..."You know what, I think we need to give our pilots a liveable pay increase, one that will actually make a difference in their daily lives. They have been doing an outstanding job, making us money."

Let's just stick our heads in the sand, thats a great plan. Status Quo. Don't Rock the Boat.

I've got it "good", so screw everyone else. Right?

JA, BH, and CC are Jedi knights and are going to live for 900 years and nothing is going to EVER change here at Skywest.

United, Delta, and Midwest airlines execs had a blood oath with "the boys" in SGU and our agreements with them will last FOREVER.

But wait, maybe its not all about the pay and QOL issues.

Maybe its about how to better things at Skywest.

Or how they DON'T get better.

The next time YOU hear YOURSELF complaining about....

Your second 3 hour sit in ORD in two days, or
how bad the 36 hour layover you have in Peoria sucks, or
the six legs you have flown for 3 hours of pay with 14 hours of duty on your last day of a four day, or
how most of the trips suck, or
no good pairings anymore, or
no commutable lines, or
"they" have taken the "good" overnights away, or
"we" swapped hotels and this one sucks - why can't we change back to the old one, or
something that crew support did to you or wouldn't do for you, or
PBS screwed you and you had company forced trips, or
Sked+ issues, or
you didn't get that vacation approved, or
day off that you wanted, or
that pay issue that you are trying to get resolved was denied,

GO TALK TO YOUR SAPA REP.

I am sure that they won't be able to help you.

I don't want to hear about it.

 

[PCL_128]

Yes SkyWest participates in ASAP

It's not a real ASAP program. With no union protection, the company isn't required by any legally binding agreement to adhere to normal ASAP protocols. In other words, if they want to discipline someone because of data gathered via ASAP, then there's no one to stop them. All Skywest has is ASAP-lite.

 

[Cardinal]

Sorry a$$hole, nice try, daddy committed suicide when I was seven....he didn't get me anything so don't you feel good about yourself now?

But ya, I got my job at UPS with 300 TT cuz I'm a chick....na na na na na.....

AugerPtrl, owned by the pregnant chick. Megadeth, will you marry me?

 

[cfi_greg]

You flip off the industry and vote no union, because you want to steal jobs from union pilots by being awarded flying solely because you're non union. That makes you a SCAB. You're taking food from the mouths of union pilots families, without shame.

Why did you come to skywest? STOP YOUR *******

Mod Edit: Creative spelling is not allowed. Just type it out and let the censors get it. You still make you point just fine that way.

 

[Cpt Oveur]

I think there first needs to be a strike in order to have someone cross a picket line. Those who cross the line are scabs. Skywest isn't taking the jobs away from union pilots. Scabs are. Stop flapping your gums.

ALPA failed to pursuade the majority of Skywest pilots. Skywest is competitive, that's why they're earning flying.

 

[cfi_greg]

It's not a real ASAP program. With no union protection, the company isn't required by any legally binding agreement to adhere to normal ASAP protocols. In other words, if they want to discipline someone because of data gathered via ASAP, then there's no one to stop them. All Skywest has is ASAP-lite.

Kinda like KAZA-lite cause we don't have to deal with all the b$ll******************** spyware, (union), oh and all the freaking pop ups (pilots standing in the terminal spreading the good word) aye! All of you complain about no unitity, I believe 65% speaks for itself. No can the b#tching stop, nah thats just too much to ask for.

 

[XPOO]

It's not a real ASAP program. With no union protection, the company isn't required by any legally binding agreement to adhere to normal ASAP protocols. In other words, if they want to discipline someone because of data gathered via ASAP, then there's no one to stop them. All Skywest has is ASAP-lite.

THE INCIDENT IN CWA WAS INSTANTLY SUBMITTED BY THE PILOTS AS AN ASAP AND THOSE TWO STILL HAVE THEIR JOBS. GUESS UNCLE JERRY AINT THAT BAD OF A GUY AFTER ALL.

 

[N2264J]

...the RJDC just turned out to be a dismal failure, settling with ALPA in a settlement that didn't even cover their 7-figure legal fees. The RJDC was a sham, a joke, and an abject failure.

That's your opinion.

What we got was ALPA's leadership's admission there was a problem and scope will never again be negotiated in a vacuum by the mainline MECs.

There will be full discloser of scope objectives before and during mainline bargaining with other MECs within the brand.

If the legacy MECs are going to continue to beat their children, they won't be able to do that in secret anymore behind closed doors. They're going to have to do it in the light of day, on the front yard, for everyone to see:

the AirTran pilots will see it
the Colgan pilots will see it
the Skywest pilots will see it
the jetBlue pilots
the Southwest pilots
the UPS pilots, etc.

ALPA is going to have to take ownership of its behavior and reform on its own or continue to lose credibility as "The Pilot's Union."

 

[Spicepilots]

The next time YOU hear YOURSELF complaining about:

Your second 3 hour sit in ORD in two days, or
how bad the 36 hour layover you have in Peoria sucks, or
the six legs you have flown for 3 hours of pay with 14 hours of duty on your last day of a four day, or
how most of the trips suck, or
no good pairings anymore, or
no commutable lines, or
"they" have taken the "good" overnights away, or
"we" swapped hotels and this one sucks - why can't we change back to the old one, or
something that crew support did to you or wouldn't do for you, or
PBS screwed you and you had company forced trips, or
Sked+ issues, or
you didn't get that vacation approved, or
day off that you wanted, or
that pay issue that you are trying to get resolved was denied,

GO TALK TO YOUR SAPA REP.

I am sure that they will absolutely not be able to help you.

I don't want to hear about it.

I'd like to point out that there isn't a great deal that ALPA would be able to do about those issues, either. I recall a SkyWest captain on reserve and hating it, complaining to a captain from another airline at one of the meet-and-greet info days about sitting ready (and I do appreciate the efforts of everyone who donated their time to come and talk to us). That captain proudly opened his contract to show that crew scheduling at his airline could "by contract only schedule us for a maximum 7 hours of ready reserve per day". Big whup; but at least it was in black and white, right? ALPA doesn't tell the regionals where and when to fly, the mainline partners do, and scheds suck everywhere, regardless of representation. SkyWest does need a union. But ALPA failed to make their case, plain and simple, and the scare tactics of Jerry the boogyman taking everything away didn't work. It also didn't help that almost every jumpseater I had from an ALPA-represented carrier (Eagle, United, Delta, etc.) told my crew that we ought to think twice about ALPA.

 

[PCL_128]

THE INCIDENT IN CWA WAS INSTANTLY SUBMITTED BY THE PILOTS AS AN ASAP AND THOSE TWO STILL HAVE THEIR JOBS. GUESS UNCLE JERRY AINT THAT BAD OF A GUY AFTER ALL.

Just because the pilots haven't been screwed in the past doesn't mean that they won't in the future. At a union carrier with a real ASAP program, there is a guarantee that no ASAP report will be used for disciplinary matters. The pilots at Skywest have no such legal guarantee.

 

[PCL_128]

That's your opinion.

What we got was ALPA's leadership's admission there was a problem and scope will never again be negotiated in a vacuum by the mainline MECs.

There will be full discloser of scope objectives before and during mainline bargaining with other MECs within the brand.

If the legacy MECs are going to continue to beat their children, they won't be able to do that in secret anymore behind closed doors. They're going to have to do it in the light of day, on the front yard, for everyone to see:

the AirTran pilots will see it
the Colgan pilots will see it
the Skywest pilots will see it
the jetBlue pilots
the Southwest pilots
the UPS pilots, etc.

ALPA is going to have to take ownership of its behavior and reform on its own or continue to lose credibility as "The Pilot's Union."

I'm sure that's also what Dan and Ken tell themselves at night when they're crying themselves to sleep thinking about the 7-figure legal bills that they racked up paying that crook and incompetent bafoon Haber. Keep dreaming, though. You guys lost big time, and you all know it.

 

[XPOO]

Just because the pilots haven't been screwed in the past doesn't mean that they won't in the future. At a union carrier with a real ASAP program, there is a guarantee that no ASAP report will be used for disciplinary matters. The pilots at Skywest have no such legal guarantee.

You're really starting to compare apples to oranges just to argue. So I conceed, you win.

 

[PCL_128]

You're really starting to compare apples to oranges just to argue. So I conceed, you win.

I don't even know what that means. I'm comparing ASAP to ASAP. Seems like apples to apples to me, but whatever.

 

[BE90flyer]

Just because the pilots haven't been screwed in the past doesn't mean that they won't in the future. quote]

That is the most ridiculous argument ever. I have worked at a union shop and a non union shop before. The people at the non union shop as a whole were a lot happier then the union shop. There were many bitter people at the union shop; they all had the "you owe me" mentality.

Pinnacle and Mesa both has unions, yet they are the worst of the worst places to work. Why? They have ALPA shouldn’t they be great places.

Most regional airlines have ALPA and yet the pay sucks and the work rules are progressively getting worse. I don’t buy the “things would be worse without ALPA” argument, how much worse could Pinnacle or Mesa get.

Maybe I should threaten people with my jump seat or type in bold and act tough. Then maybe I could be an APLA supporter.

 

[Ezralite]

After reading a lot of these posts from Skywest people I can safely say that you picked the right airline to work for. Good luck.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Why in god's name should they? And why would you ever ask them? A secret ballot is a fundamental concept of a democratic society.

No... a deocratic society is ALPA... not the SKYW jobs program for me me me pilots...

Some guys are proud of thier no vote... I am sure they will speak up..

There are a fair amount of hard working pro-ALPA guys who just worked hard and feel like they just got punched in the gut. Why would anyone want to rub their face in it? Hardly good CRM to be picking a fight.

I am talking jumpseat...

There is a fair amount of trepidation from a lot of anti-ALPA guys who don't want to deal with "lists" or "scab" calls either . . . why would anyone subject themselves to that from the 1% of the hard-core ALPA guys who are certifiable?

Maybe cause the 1% Club would rather get a thanks from the 66%Klub...