ALPA/401k revisited

[Nevets]

Your (and your buddy PCL too) constant ranting about what a great organization ALPA would be if it weren't for the lazy, ignorant, aloof, uninformed membership is quite embarrassing to everyone.

I would argue that ALPA is a great organization despite "the lazy, ignorant, aloof, uninformed membership."

 

[Nevets]

Two weeks ago, ALPA's president, Capt. John Prater, sent a letter to explain how this vote to consider changing the ALPA Constitution and By-Laws (CBL) came about, including background information detailing the original ATA MEC request and the Executive Council’Flightinfo.com Hangar - Reply to Topics subcommittee findings. Last week, ALPA's vice president of administration, Capt. Bill Couette, and vice president of finance/treasurer, Capt. Randy Helling, taped a video message that explained the reasons behind this recommended change. Since that time, we’ve received several messages from concerned line pilots, and we feel that we need to set the record straight on a few issues.


First, this change would affect only those ALPA members who are not paying dues on their 401(k) contributions. Currently, only pilots at Atlas, Island Air, ASA, ExpressJet, Comair, ASTAR, American Eagle, Gemini, Mesa, Mesaba, Polar, Pinnacle, PSA, Ryan, Sun Country, Spirit, and TSA do not pay dues on their income deferred into 401(k) plans, because their 401(k) is their only retirement plan. Approximately 30 percent of our 45,000 dues-paying members work for these airlines, and total dues paid by pilots at these airlines represent 16 percent of ALPA’s total dues income.


On the other hand, the remaining 70 percent of our dues-paying members—all of whom have a 401(k) plan or Canadian equivalent plan available to them—pay dues on their earnings prior to any 401(k) contributions, if they make such contributions. A “yes” vote will not increase their dues. The disparity in the number of pilots who do and do not pay dues on 401(k) contributions is just one example of the fairness issue raised in previous communications.


Second, this vote is the outcome of nearly five years of work, not a reaction to any recent events. The Executive Council and Executive Board made this decision after years of study. Some pilots have concluded that this proposal is somehow meant to offset the loss of US Airways, America West, Aloha, ATA, Champion, Kitty Hawk, and Skyway. Although the change would provide a modest increase in ALPA’s dues income, the approximate $1.4 million increase in annual dues from this change—nearly 40 percent of which will return to MECs to fund their day-to-day activities—is less than 10 percent of the recent losses in dues income.


The vast majority of the changes necessary to offset the $15 million loss in dues revenue have already been implemented by your union leaders, with a significant focus on cost cutting across ALPA, including:

• 
  [*]Eliminating more than 40 staff positions across the union, coupled with other staff savings, which generated a savings of $5.1 million annually
  [*]Reducing funding of affected MECs, which saved $5.5 million, and reducing funding of the Operating Contingency Fund by more than $500,000
  [*]Restructuring national committees, streamlining activities, and generally reducing costs to the tune of $1.2 million annually
  [*]Retaining unused LEC funding (currently at $44/pilot per year) within the Administrative & Support account for an estimated savings of $900,000 annually
  [*]Eliminating home Internet expense reimbursements for pilot representatives, producing savings of more than $100,000 annually.

Since the events of 9/11 and the subsequent reduction in pilot income, ALPA has continually reengineered the Association in order to preserve the financial viability of the union. Overall, ALPA has reduced its expenses by more than $40 million since dues revenue peaked in 2002, including the elimination of 101 staff positions through attrition and job eliminations. After the latest cuts are complete, ALPA will have 353 staff positions, down from 454 on Sept. 10, 2001.


The pilots you have elected to serve as your MEC chairmen, executive vice presidents, and national officers willingly assume the difficult obligation to ensure that resources are available for our collective union while keeping individual members’ concerns in mind. In this case, your representatives have acted in what they believe is a spirit of fairness and prudence. Now it is in your hands to endorse or reject their recommended course of action on this important issue. As always, thank you for serving your pilots and your union.


Fraternally,


ALPA National Officers

 

[CFIT]

So does APLA really have a Flight.Info-Hangar - Reply to Topics Sub Commitee?

No Way!

Rez, are you really in charge of that?

Remember, your answer must be in the form of a question.

 

[pipejockey]

However, right or wrong, when the average person thinks of their union...they will, by nature, think of what their union dues are doing to help their job security and bottom line. When there has been little to no progression in either of these catagories (and, in many cases, a backslide)...and the representative body starts requesting more money without taking any kind of similar concessions...you can see where the membership might start to get a little fed up with the "Status Quo" that Prater, et al. seem so hell bent on maintaining. I'm just not sure how anyone can defend that...

Exactly!! Except I would have to disagree with your statement "in many cases a backslide". Try in ALL cases a backslide. Corrected for inflation, who actually has more earning power now than they did in 2001, except for southworst who is merely benefiting and exploiting our own demise. And FedEx and UPS don't count!

There is a lot of talk on here about how ALPA does not represent their pilots but there is little evidence to back up this claim.

Are you kidding me!! I am literally shaking my head in disbelief at your extremely naive comment. Let me help you out. Look at just about every carriers pilot contract prior to 2002, and compare it with todays, taking in consideration that 7 years of inflation at an average of 3% has gone by, meaning we'd have to earn about 20% more than we did in 2001 just to stay even.

And for a real shocker, take a look at pilot contracts pre 1978!! But you know what, I am willing to accept the slide this profession has taken in the 23 years after 1978, but what has been done to it the past 7 is not only beyond belief, it is corrupt, immoral, and should be against any civilized law we have in society!

 

[pipejockey]

5% LEC participation
35% LEC voter participation
37% Age 60 survey member participation
16% ALPA-PAC participation

Eliminate the top 20% of each carriers seniority list and then recalculate the figures. Those senior captains doing transcons and international, 1 leg a day, 10 days a month or so earning their 150-200 grand(which is far lower than it should be) are the most complacent sob's around. Their attitude is "I've got mine now F YOU!!" And now they are full of glee we can't get their old decrepit bodies out of the left seat for another 5 years and rub our faces in it! They remind me of when Charlton Heston speaking in front of the NRA about the only way to get his firearms from him when he said, over his cold dead body! Well just replace fireams with control column, and you have most of these captains!

 

[pipejockey]

Currently, only pilots at Atlas, Island Air, ASA, ExpressJet, Comair, ASTAR, American Eagle, Gemini, Mesa, Mesaba, Polar, Pinnacle, PSA, Ryan, Sun Country, Spirit, and TSA

Wow!! ONLY 17 airlines. Gee just a drop in the bucket huh? I wonder when the "ONLY" would have been excluded. At 20 airlines? 25? maybe 30? I'd love to drop kick the sob who wrote that release!

And these ONLY 17 airlines are all regionals, or 2nd tier passenger airlines with extremely low pay!! Way to kick a guy when he's down. And thus alpo stoops to a new level. We will have to start getting our shovels out soon just to keep up with the bar they are setting.

 

[pipejockey]

On the other hand, the remaining 70 percent of our dues-paying members—all of whom have a 401(k) plan or Canadian equivalent plan available to them—pay dues on their earnings prior to any 401(k) contributions, if they make such contributions.

Oh, and I have to say, isn't it just typical alpo to conveniently leave out the fact as to why the remaining 70% are not exempt? Well it is because the remaining 70% HAVE OTHER RETIREMENT PLANS in addition to the 401K. Those ONLY 17 other airlines provide nothing more than a 401K. I guess it would be too human to throw em a bone and keep the 401K contributions exempt huh?

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

So does APLA really have a Flight.Info-Hangar - Reply to Topics Sub Commitee?

No Way!

Rez, are you really in charge of that?

Remember, your answer must be in the form of a question.

Sure...


answer this:

When CREW PASS comes live for all air line pilots are you going to use it? Or will you stay true to your anti alpa mantra and go through the normal security lines...

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Exactly!! Except I would have to disagree with your statement "in many cases a backslide". Try in ALL cases a backslide. Corrected for inflation, who actually has more earning power now than they did in 2001, except for southworst who is merely benefiting and exploiting our own demise. And FedEx and UPS don't count!

So unions are responsible for inflation. Is ALPA also responsible for 9/11?

Why do you make unions responsible for your misery? and of course the cargo guys don't count? Why?

Are you kidding me!! I am literally shaking my head in disbelief at your extremely naive comment. Let me help you out. Look at just about every carriers pilot contract prior to 2002, and compare it with todays, taking in consideration that 7 years of inflation at an average of 3% has gone by, meaning we'd have to earn about 20% more than we did in 2001 just to stay even.

And thru their union, pilots voted on the contract changes... pilot reps will vote on this 401k change.

do you get to vote on your company policy change?

So much hate....

And for a real shocker, take a look at pilot contracts pre 1978!!

Have you?

But you know what, I am willing to accept the slide this profession has taken in the 23 years after 1978, but what has been done to it the past 7 is not only beyond belief, it is corrupt, immoral, and should be against any civilized law we have in society!

and its all the unions fault... no need to discuss CEO's or gov't right.... lets just dump it all on the unions lap...

Eliminate the top 20% of each carriers seniority list and then recalculate the figures. Those senior captains doing transcons and international, 1 leg a day, 10 days a month or so earning their 150-200 grand(which is far lower than it should be) are the most complacent sob's around. Their attitude is "I've got mine now F YOU!!" And now they are full of glee we can't get their old decrepit bodies out of the left seat for another 5 years and rub our faces in it! They remind me of when Charlton Heston speaking in front of the NRA about the only way to get his firearms from him when he said, over his cold dead body! Well just replace fireams with control column, and you have most of these captains!

I agree with you. That is why I attend LEC meetings so this isn't a captains club. If the young guys don't show up to meetings and call bullshat on these guys they will pass resolutions that benefit them...

So will you represent yourself? Or expect the old sobs to look out for you too?

Wow!! ONLY 17 airlines. Gee just a drop in the bucket huh? I wonder when the "ONLY" would have been excluded. At 20 airlines? 25? maybe 30? I'd love to drop kick the sob who wrote that release!

compare the number of pilots...

And these ONLY 17 airlines are all regionals, or 2nd tier passenger airlines with extremely low pay!! Way to kick a guy when he's down. And thus alpo stoops to a new level. We will have to start getting our shovels out soon just to keep up with the bar they are setting.

maybe you'd like company pay rates and non union protection....

Oh, and I have to say, isn't it just typical alpo to conveniently leave out the fact as to why the remaining 70% are not exempt? Well it is because the remaining 70% HAVE OTHER RETIREMENT PLANS in addition to the 401K. Those ONLY 17 other airlines provide nothing more than a 401K. I guess it would be too human to throw em a bone and keep the 401K contributions exempt huh?

You seem to feel strongly about this.

Have you communicated this to your reps? The ones who vote on it? Why not post your email that you sent. De-identify it.

What about LEC meetings? Did you voice your opposition there? An effective way would be to get a much support from your fellow pilots... What is more effective? your voice or 10? 20? 50?

It just seems that you haven't grown in the last few weeks on this issue... you are still ranting and throwing temper tantrum with misinformation that is really centered and yourself... ALPA isn't about you... it is about many people... but you seem to expect ALPA to be all about you....


your thoughts?

 

[WalterSobchak]

Ya know, Rez...the more tired rhetoric you spew, the more you sound like a communist. And, I would know a commie when I see one, since I'm "Un-American" and all.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Ya know, Rez...the more tired rhetoric you spew, the more you sound like a communist. And, I would know a commie when I see one, since I'm "Un-American" and all.

ok.. let's stop the rhetoric.. and talk principles...


What do you think of OO pilots that will use CREW PASS that ALPA got the TSA to take off the back burner and make it happen?

Hypocritical?

No big deal?

 

[CFIT]

ok.. let's stop the rhetoric.. and talk principles...


What do you think of OO pilots that will use CREW PASS that ALPA got the TSA to take off the back burner and make it happen?

Hypocritical?

No big deal?

Do you think SWA and AA and USAPA will too?

Again your response must be in the form of a question!

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Do you think SWA and AA and USAPA will too?

Again your response must be in the form of a question!

Did SWAPA (its SWAPA not SWA) and the APA (its APA not AA) have the opportunity to join ALPA and be a part of the profession...??

In addition, don't flatter yourself and compare the OO burka boys to the professionals of SWAPA and APA. Are there any in house regional unions?

As far as USAPA... the only thing they were able to do so far is jump into the inflatable life raft... I don't see any progress made...

You like USAPA? How they operate and what they stand for?


Now back to CREW PASS... I would guess that if successful, all pilots will have to go through in such a manner... thus once again, the OO skilled labor that flies airplanes will leach off the hard work and dues money of the professionals....

 

[JoeMerchant]

Even a blind squirrel finds a nut every once and awhile.........CrewPass is fine and dandy......but it doesn't justify an increase in dues while the ALPA President makes almost 400K per year and the former ALPA President makes 150K a year in ALPA pension.

This combined with the splintered factions within ALPA that have to compete for flying and the total disaster of scope and mergers......

The cheerleaders like to find the few diamonds in the rough....not many to find.....

 

[Nevets]

AIR LINE PILOTS ASSOCIATION, INTERNATIONAL
105Th REGULAR EXECUTIVE COUNCIL MEETING

August 19−21, 2008

SUBJECT
ALPA, International, Employee Pay and Expense Cap

SOURCE
Vice President-Finance/Treasurer Randy Helling (05/08 EXCL, AI #2)

BACKGROUND INFORMATION
The majority of ALPA pilots have made extreme concessions and suffered major pension loss. Some ALPA, International, employees have very generous pay and expense packages.

At the January 2008 Executive Council meeting, the NWA MEC submitted a resolution requesting that the issue of ALPA Employee Pay and Expenses be capped and/or indexed according to ALPA pilot
pay.

At the direction of the Executive Council, the President established a subcommittee to study ALPA employee, including management, compensation programs. After the subcommittee reported at the May 2008 meeting, they were directed to present a written report to the Council at its August meeting, whose findings will be reported to the ALPA membership.

PROPOSED RESOLUTION
1 To be developed.

 

[DGdaPilot]

The vote failed at National. It needed 2/3s majority and barely had 1/2.

 

[Nevets]

The vote failed at National. It needed 2/3s majority and barely had 1/2.

What do you mean at national? This was voted on by the reps of all ALPA carriers. This includes all the regional carriers.

 

[DGdaPilot]

What do you mean at national? This was voted on by the reps of all ALPA carriers. This includes all the regional carriers.

ALPA National. That's exactly what I was saying. All the reps got to vote at the national level for this national issue. "National" because it affects all of us.

God bless the folks who voted down this trash. EGL held their ground.

 

[Evansaero]

I made my voice clear on this subject long ago and I'm pleased that my Rep voted NO.

I can tell you if you didn't voice your opinion here at TSA your vote was counted as a YES vote.

It still FAILED

I heard this issue is not dead. As National has plans to have another vote on this at the BOD meeting later this year

 

[Nevets]

I heard this issue is not dead. As National has plans to have another vote on this at the BOD meeting later this year

I think a raise in dues was coming either way.