ALPA/401k revisited

[duck_killer]

Could he afford a Lincoln on his CAL pay?

What should he wear to Congressional testimony? Wrangler jeans and shop shirt with his name embroidered?



Just like gov't.... the voters don't vote yet they expect the elected to know what they want...

Face it... democracy is dead.... members want the benefits but they don't want to work for it, let alone vote...... easier to blame those one didn't bother to vote for...

Rez what are airline do you work for and how long have you been in the profession?

 

[JoeMerchant]

I'm back! And as usual, Rez looks reasonable and intelligent while Joey looks like a mindless radical. I don't believe that this issue should pass at the BOD, but I also think Joey and others are being a wee bit melodramatic about it.

So why don't you think it should pass?

 

[PCL_128]

So why don't you think it should pass?

I think it's obvious that the membership doesn't approve of the way this was handled. Just like Age 65, Prater forced it through behind closed doors. It reeks of ethical problems.

 

[JoeMerchant]

I think it's obvious that the membership doesn't approve of the way this was handled. Just like Age 65, Prater forced it through behind closed doors. It reeks of ethical problems.

....I agree....I can't support an organization that "reeks of ethical problems"....

 

[PCL_128]

....I agree....I can't support an organization that "reeks of ethical problems"....

The Association doesn't reek of ethical problems. A specific leader and a few specific actions do. I can support the organization while disavowing certain personalities or certain actions.

 

[JoeMerchant]

The Association doesn't reek of ethical problems. A specific leader and a few specific actions do. I can support the organization while disavowing certain personalities or certain actions.

The EB and EC passed this....how can you blame it all on Prater? The President of ALPA isn't that powerful...The organization is responsible for it's actions.....Your hero DW would be supporting this too if he were still here....

Your presious ALPA does reek of ethical problems.....

 

[PCL_128]

The EB and EC passed this....how can you blame it all on Prater? The President of ALPA isn't that powerful...The organization is responsible for it's actions.....

I agree that members of the other governing bodies bear responsibility also, but I really don't know what the votes were on those two bodies. If it was unanimous, then I would be pretty disappointed. Nevertheless, the Association has checks and balances, and a 2/3 vote of the BOD is required to pass this. If that governing body ultimately fails to follow the direction of the membership, then I might be more prone to believe that there are inherent problems in the structure. Until then, the system is still working as it was meant to. This hasn't become policy yet.

Your hero DW would be supporting this too if he were still here....

This issue was brought up by some people (read: Prater) two years ago, and Duane was opposed.

Your presious ALPA does reek of ethical problems.....

I don't see any. At least not in the overall organization. Like I said, certain individuals will always be around that lack ethics, but the organization itself is still sound, IMO.

 

[Dirty Sanchez]

ALPA got itself into this mess. Skywest and Colgan not joining and US Air East withdrawing. Not to mention the reduction in dues from the pay cuts taken by pilots. I would like to see ALPA's financial statements. I bet their meals and entertainment (steak and drinks) expenditures would cover the shortfall.

In order for a business to increase fees for services, there should be an increase in what is offered. Not just "we may have to file bankruptcy". We all make due with what we are paid and ALPA needs to do the same.

I can see this being just like age 65, a good majority oppose it yet it passes anyway. Maybe the age 60+ guys can make up the difference.

 

[pipejockey]

Found on another board. These ALPA National guys need to take a look in the mirror. Every single person there makes more than all of us pilots (Regionals, anyhow):

Duane Woerth President $ 351,186 $ 136,744 $ 487,930
Jalmer Johnson General Manager $ 389,238 $ 4,532 $ 393,770

Bruce York Dir Representation $ 348,955 $ 35,617 $ 384,572
Jonathan Cohen Chief Counsel&dir, Legal $ 366,736 $ 3,213 $ 369,949

Don Skiados Director, Communications $ 306,635 $ 4,752 $ 311,387
Kevin Barnhurst Director, Finance $ 309,429 $ 1,729 $ 311,158

Paul Hallisay Director, Gov't Affairs $ 295,943 $ 6,195 $ 302,138
William Roberts Asst Dir Representation $ 287,391 $ 11,944 $ 299,335

Jim Johnson Managing Attorney, Legal $ 277,013 $ 19,828 $ 296,841
Stephen Crable Asst Dir Representation $ 266,107 $ 17,407 $ 283,514

Seth Rosen Director, Ipsc $ 236,488 $ 46,862 $ 283,350
Keith Hagy Director Eng & Air Safety $ 268,112 $ 4,410 $ 272,522

Jeffrey Small Sr Contr Admin/mec Coord $ 238,517 $ 32,145 $ 270,662
Gene Granof Managing Attorney, Legal $ 264,519 $ 4,443 $ 268,962

Liz Koby Managing Attorney $ 244,656 $ 18,328 $ 262,984
Jerry Anker Managing Attorney, Legal $ 261,212 $ 1,764 $ 262,976

Jim Wilson Asst Dir Representation $ 251,189 $ 11,582 $ 262,771
Dave Vance Director, Retir & Ins $ 257,048 $ 3,391 $ 260,439

Ana Mcahron-schulz Director,econ&fin Anal $ 211,946 $ 27,592 $ 239,538
Bob Christy Mgr, Economic&financial $ 211,096 $ 23,513 $ 234,609
Robert Nichols Sr Contr Admin/mec Coord $ 225,090 $ 6,477 $ 231,567
Patrick Brennaman Sr Contr Admin/mec Coord $ 226,442 $ 3,021 $ 229,463
Russ Bailey Senior Attorney $ 223,322 $ 2,825 $ 226,147
Stephen Nagrotsky Sr Contract Administrator $ 209,270 $ 7,402 $ 216,672
Russell Woody Sr Benefits Attorney $ 205,382 $ 10,019 $ 215,401
Richard Domholt Sr Contract Administrator $ 200,764 $ 12,612 $ 213,376
Charlie Murphy Director, It & Service $ 208,715 $ 1,047 $ 209,762
Marcus Migliore Senior Attorney $ 203,160 $ 852 $ 204,012
Clay Warner Senior Attorney $ 201,639 $ 1,900 $ 203,539
Bob Lipsey Pension Inv Coordinator $ 181,595 $ 18,251 $ 199,846
Art La Flamme Sr Representative $ 184,738 $ 11,416 $ 196,154
Steve Hodgson Sr Field Representative $ 180,438 $ 9,282 $ 189,720
John Schleder Sr Contract Administrator $ 183,983 $ 3,517 $ 187,500
Rob Plunkett Sr Contract Administrator $ 184,118 $ 1,422 $ 185,540
William Elliott Sr Contr Admin/mec Coord $ 180,241 $ 4,396 $ 184,637
Frank Voyack Sr Legislative Rep $ 180,939 $ 3,392 $ 184,331
Jeffrey Macdonald Supv, Collective Bargain $ 165,443 $ 17,421 $ 182,864
Brendan Kenny Sr Legislative Rep $ 181,339 $ 1,425 $ 182,764
Art Luby Sr Contract Administrator $ 175,308 $ 5,955 $ 181,263
Dennis Dolan First Vice-president $ 0 $ 180,874 $ 180,874
Jane Schraft Sr Contract Administrator $ 177,005 $ 3,222 $ 180,227
Betty Ginsburg Senior Attorney $ 177,944 $ 2,106 $ 180,050
Victoria Fortuna Sr Benefits Attorney $ 176,673 $ 2,769 $ 179,442
Jim Medley Mgr, Systems Development $ 174,138 $ 188 $ 174,326
David Holtzman Sr Contract Administrator $ 165,286 $ 8,232 $ 173,518
Suzanne Kalfus Senior Attorney $ 168,913 $ 2,692 $ 171,605
Gary Dinunno Supv,airline Pilot Mag $ 170,308 $ 1,000 $ 171,308 <-------- This guy makes this much to put together the little magazine you get at home
Kevin Fitzpatrick Sr. Contract Admin. $ 170,423 $ 0 $ 170,423
Richard Harrell Manager, It-dev Sup $ 168,590 $ 1,432 $ 170,022
Jerry Wright Mgr, Security&human Perf $ 166,031 $ 2,763 $ 168,794
James Connolly Field Representative $ 160,354 $ 5,300 $ 165,654
Joan (jody) Bettenburg Sr Contract Admin $ 164,226 $ 1,230 $ 165,456
Darrell Green Sr Contract Administrator $ 159,038 $ 4,844 $ 163,882
Bill Edmunds Human Performance Spec $ 157,924 $ 5,051 $ 162,975
Paul Rice Vice President Admin $ 0 $ 162,735 $ 162,735
Bob Striegel Sr Staff Engineer $ 155,205 $ 5,990 $ 161,195
Don Mcclure Air Safety Coordinator $ 147,790 $ 13,346 $ 161,136
John Dean Contract Administrator $ 147,398 $ 12,676 $ 160,074
Bill Phaneuf Sr Staff Engineer $ 155,108 $ 3,746 $ 158,854
Richard Pavel Field Representative $ 150,947 $ 7,078 $ 158,025
Chris Baum Mgr, Accident Inv $ 154,712 $ 1,843 $ 156,555
Christopher Beebe Vice President Finance $ 0 $ 155,360 $ 155,360
Everett Barber Contract Administrator $ 147,946 $ 6,640 $ 154,586
Jim Lobsenz Senior Attorney $ 152,105 $ 2,146 $ 154,251
Margarita Lorenzetti Manager, Finance & Acct $ 151,842 $ 434 $ 152,276
Sandra Pusey Supv, Product Support $ 149,518 $ 0 $ 149,518
David Krieger Lead Financial Analyst $ 138,125 $ 11,299 $ 149,424
Andrew Shostack Contract Administrator $ 143,133 $ 4,625 $ 147,758
Charlie Bergman Mgr, Air Safety & Ops $ 142,968 $ 4,282 $ 147,250
Kelly Collie Emp Dev & Comm Coord $ 143,850 $ 2,207 $ 146,057
Lee Veid Supervisor, Applications $ 145,607 $ 0 $ 145,607
Terry Saturday Sr Contr Administrator $ 137,865 $ 7,726 $ 145,591
Jack Parrack Enrolled Actuary $ 141,749 $ 3,146 $ 144,895
Ken Cooper Asst Dir Representation $ 131,651 $ 11,847 $ 143,498
Marie Schwartz Manager, Communications $ 137,492 $ 5,191 $ 142,683
Joan Gallahan Mgr, Memb & Council Srvs $ 142,236 $ 309 $ 142,545
Bill Despins Lead Economic Analyst $ 128,759 $ 13,619 $ 142,378
Percy Toop Contract Administrator $ 127,122 $ 13,873 $ 140,995
Jan Steenblik Technical Editor $ 136,676 $ 3,246 $ 139,922
David Hannah Contract Administrator $ 133,971 $ 4,641 $ 138,612
Peter Janhunen Manager, Communications $ 136,746 $ 1,485 $ 138,231
Linda Rafii Sr Benefits Specialist $ 132,763 $ 5,334 $ 138,097
Trai Nguyen Sr Network Integrator $ 135,624 $ 969 $ 136,593
Brent Milligan Enrolled Actuary $ 130,764 $ 5,517 $ 136,281
Kelly Hardy Sr Gov Affairs Spec $ 135,836 $ 0 $ 135,836
Mike Cranford Sr Systems Integrator $ 135,680 $ 0 $ 135,680
Helen Wong-scruggs Systems Analyst $ 135,544 $ 0 $ 135,544
John Mazor Sr. Communications Spec $ 135,236 $ 67 $ 135,303
Chris Mccarthy Manager, It Op&services $ 131,905 $ 300 $ 132,205
Joe Bracken Sr Staff Engineer $ 130,442 $ 1,588 $ 132,030
Rod Gardner Supv, Network Sys&ser $ 130,954 $ 660 $ 131,614
Amy Alperi Lead Economic Analyst $ 128,960 $ 1,994 $ 130,954
Marcia Eubanks Lead Economic Analyst $ 118,811 $ 11,873 $ 130,684
Michael Huhn Sr Accident Inv Spec $ 129,091 $ 1,335 $ 130,426
Wayne Klocke Contract Administrator $ 129,277 $ 1,098 $ 130,375
Daniel Froehlich Contract Administrator $ 123,751 $ 4,941 $ 128,692
James Andresakes Sr Security Specialist $ 126,867 $ 1,798 $ 128,665
John Gaiser Sr Benefits Specialist $ 126,412 $ 0 $ 126,412
Neal Davis Contract Administrator $ 121,703 $ 4,612 $ 126,315
Hong Lee Sr Data Admin Analyst $ 125,866 $ 0 $ 125,866
Cynthia Holloway Hr Administrator $ 125,843 $ 0 $ 125,843
Bert Leger Contract Administrator $ 108,952 $ 15,943 $ 124,895
Tom Kilpatrick Contract Administrator $ 119,483 $ 4,687 $ 124,170
Michael Welsh Contract Administrator $ 122,438 $ 1,620 $ 124,058
Bob Hall Staff Engineer $ 122,236 $ 1,681 $ 123,917
Richard Parker Analyst/programmer $ 123,814 $ 0 $ 123,814
Jan Briel Director, Human Resources $ 122,209 $ 904 $ 123,113 <-------- One of the highest paying HR jobs out there, for its size.
Elaine Grittner Sr Mec Benefits Spec $ 122,558 $ 382 $ 122,940
Janie Miller Systems Analyst $ 121,542 $ 224 $ 121,766

and the list goes on...

I am so infuriated at looking at what these people earn I am having a hard time not punching a hole in the wall!! This is absolutely shameful, digusting, abhorrent abuse of power. I counted 160 people on that list(I had to shorten it as it was so long the system wouldn't even let me post it all plus my post) and all earning over 100 grand, some very much more than that! If all the people on this list took a 10% pay cut, which is far less than what every legacy pilot took in concessions over the past 7 years, they would have 3 million dollars in saving right there!

This union is so out of control. It would be 1 thing if they actually performed, but they negotiate pi** poor after pi** poor TA's that they allow the membership to vote on, fully knowing every pilot group will cave and vote these pieces of sh*t in because we have no balls. We have proven it time after time! It's high time we shut alpo down, followed by many of our airlines via a job action. It's high time we take back what has been stolen from us. The average major airline pilot earning a wage that is about on a par with an average US worker with a 4 year degree for doing what we do is despicable! Regional airline pilots earning a wage that is FAR BELOW what an average US worker with a 4 year year degree earns is beyond anything words can even describe.

And part of the blame rests with our impotent union. But they sure show some balls when trying to come after the little guy(us) with their schemes to extract more money from us so the at least 160 people on the above list can continue to live their lavish lifestyles, but expect them to stand up to management, and they wither like little girls, fold like origami, they are a waste!

 

[PCL_128]

You're falling right into the trap that Mr. Berman has set for you. He set up the so-called "union facts" website to spread misinformation and half-truths in order to piss off union members and get them to turn against each other. Those figures you see above are all gross misrepresentations. They include all kinds of things that have nothing to do with what is actually received on their paychecks. Whack off about 30% and you'll get something close to what they actually make.

Don't fall for Berman's trap.

 

[imacdog]

Maybe this dues increase (that's what it really is) is what Prater meant by "taking it back".

 

[Speedtape]

Guess it takes money to get good help these days! The salaries are just the tip of the iceberg. You should see the benefits package including pensions.

 

[Capt. Caucasian]

I believe Congress is corrupt. Should we dump the House and Senate? Get rid of the national structure? Local only governing? 1860 all over again?

 

[Capt. Caucasian]

Guess it takes money to get good help these days! The salaries are just the tip of the iceberg. You should see the benefits package including pensions.

Actually, that's what those numbers include. TOTAL compensation. Health care, 401k, pension, expense reimbursement, and everything else that has a monetary value (like work rules).

 

[JoeMerchant]

I believe Congress is corrupt. Should we dump the House and Senate? Get rid of the national structure? Local only governing? 1860 all over again?

It may come to that too.....We deifinately shouldn't raise taxes.....

 

[JoeMerchant]

Actually, that's what those numbers include. TOTAL compensation. Health care, 401k, pension, expense reimbursement, and everything else that has a monetary value (like work rules).

NOT TRUE....Those numbers do not include the pensions....

The first number is the salary....the second number includes expenses such as meal/housing etc....

The pension is on top of those numbers....

DW's pension is about 150K a year.....Any of the members getting a 150k a year pension for 8 years of service?

How any of you can justify that is beyond me.....

 

[DoinTime]

DW's pension is about 200K a year.....Any of the members getting a 200k a year pension for 8 years of service?

In a earlier post you said this:

Pension 5% per year of service, max 60% of Total Base Compensation, providing for single premium annuity commencing at age 55 or termination of office whichever is later. 8 yrs service = 40% X $372,728 = $149,091.20 per year. 12 years service = 60% X $372,728 = $223,636.80 per year.

Which is it? There is a big difference between $150,000/year and $200,000/year. Or maybe you just have a 34% embellishment factor built into your bullsh*t?

Jerry Atkin received over $1.5 million in compensation in 2006. I don't recall any Skywest or ASA pilots pulling in that kind of money. Why is everyone so silent on that injustice?

 

[BOX OFFICE]

Jerry Atkin received over $1.5 million in compensation in 2006. I don't recall any Skywest or ASA pilots pulling in that kind of money. Why is everyone so silent on that injustice?

Speaking of BS, that's about the worst logic I've ever seen. Atkin is the President of a very successful corporation. The ALPA president's success is highly debatable, and he doesn't even "run" the company since he has a General Manager to do it. He's just the pretty face who takes credit.

I'm a firm believer that the ALPA President should make whatever he would be paid on the line at his company, plus a small override, and all expenses covered. Not the obscene money he makes now.

He certainly would have a lot more credibility with his membership, wouldn't he?

 

[DoinTime]

Speaking of BS, that's about the worst logic I've ever seen. Atkin is the President of a very successful corporation. The ALPA president's success is highly debatable, and he doesn't even "run" the company since he has a General Manager to do it.

My point was that Jerry doesn't perform the same job as a pilot, so why should he be paid as one? The ALPA presidency is NOT a piloting job. Why should there be a correlation to what a pilot earns?

Maybe a better example is Pinnacle's Phil Trenary made about $1.2 million last year and his airline is not so successful.

He's just the pretty face who takes credit.

John Prater is not pretty.

I'm a firm believer that the ALPA President should make whatever he would be paid on the line at his company, plus a small override, and all expenses covered. Not the obscene money he makes now. He certainly would have a lot more credibility with his membership, wouldn't he?

What if the ALPA President were a regional captain? Should he still make $70,000/year? Why would anyone pursue the office of President if there wasn't anything in it for them?

Prater used to be a 777 captain working 10 days/month without a care in the world. Now he is lucky to get any days off and the weight of 50,000 cry baby pilots is on his back. Only an egomaniacal P.O.S. would make an argument that the office of the President is only entitled to rank and file pay.

 

[pipejockey]

I'm a firm believer that the ALPA President should make whatever he would be paid on the line at his company, plus a small override, and all expenses covered.

I firmly disagree!! Why should he get paid what a senior captain would get paid on the line while flying all around the country or the world, being away from home weekends, most holidays, the kids soccer game etc, all the while his feet are firmly planted on the ground, home nearly every night, weekends off, holidays off etc etc!