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ALL Flying will performed by AA pilots

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AAflyer

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Joined
Nov 26, 2001
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December 7, 2007

American pilots drop a little bombshell

At the negotiating table Thursday, the union representing American Airlines pilots made a proposal that gets to the heart of more than 20 years of hard feelings between its pilots and American -- and for that matter, for many pilots at big carriers.

The Allied Pilots Association proposal:

All flying performed by or on behalf of the Company or an Affiliate shall be performed by pilots on the American Airlines Seniority List in accordance with the terms and conditions of this agreement.

American Airlines quickly put out a response, in the tsk-tsk style that it uses on its public negotiations website, www.aanegotiations.com:

AA negotiators raised serious concerns about the impact of such a proposal and believe our efforts should be focused on helping American be competitive in all areas of its business.
What that means is that only American Airlines pilots will do its flying, whether it's 37-seat regional jets or 500-seat jumbo jets.

Very reluctantly, the APA back in the 1980s agreed to let American contract with regional carriers to provide the short-haul flights into its hubs. But that has grown over the years to long-distance flights and not just into hubs, and the American union has never liked it, even as it had to back down because all of American's major competitors were benefitting from out-sourced flying.

Complicating this question now is American's Nov. 28 proposal to spin off its separate American Eagle unit that does most commuter feed for American.

The union in the past has proposed that its members do all flying, with the proviso that the commuter pilots would be paid lower rates than those who fly bigger airplanes. But the average American pilot gets benefits and such that also raise the employee costs in addition to the hourly pay rate, so American hasn't shown any interest.

This will get interesting.

Posted by Terry Maxon at 11:13 AM | Permalink | Comments | TrackBacks (0)
 
I have heard several times that when regional jets were first coming into service, mainline pilots said "No" when asked to fly them. Is this true?
It looks like APA pilots want to stop the erosion of RJ service on mainline flying. What do you think of this AAFlyer? I am glad to see this sort of proposal coming out..
 
o sweet mother of god let this grow and flurish. let it catch on with all airlines. do you guys know how much job security we could gain if flying for one airline was done by one list.


December 7, 2007

American pilots drop a little bombshell

At the negotiating table Thursday, the union representing American Airlines pilots made a proposal that gets to the heart of more than 20 years of hard feelings between its pilots and American -- and for that matter, for many pilots at big carriers.

The Allied Pilots Association proposal:

All flying performed by or on behalf of the Company or an Affiliate shall be performed by pilots on the American Airlines Seniority List in accordance with the terms and conditions of this agreement.

American Airlines quickly put out a response, in the tsk-tsk style that it uses on its public negotiations website, www.aanegotiations.com:

AA negotiators raised serious concerns about the impact of such a proposal and believe our efforts should be focused on helping American be competitive in all areas of its business.
What that means is that only American Airlines pilots will do its flying, whether it's 37-seat regional jets or 500-seat jumbo jets.

Very reluctantly, the APA back in the 1980s agreed to let American contract with regional carriers to provide the short-haul flights into its hubs. But that has grown over the years to long-distance flights and not just into hubs, and the American union has never liked it, even as it had to back down because all of American's major competitors were benefitting from out-sourced flying.

Complicating this question now is American's Nov. 28 proposal to spin off its separate American Eagle unit that does most commuter feed for American.

The union in the past has proposed that its members do all flying, with the proviso that the commuter pilots would be paid lower rates than those who fly bigger airplanes. But the average American pilot gets benefits and such that also raise the employee costs in addition to the hourly pay rate, so American hasn't shown any interest.

This will get interesting.

Posted by Terry Maxon at 11:13 AM | Permalink | Comments | TrackBacks (0)
 
Its about time..........well done APA
 
I have heard several times that when regional jets were first coming into service, mainline pilots said "No" when asked to fly them. Is this true?
It looks like APA pilots want to stop the erosion of RJ service on mainline flying. What do you think of this AAFlyer? I am glad to see this sort of proposal coming out..

They wanted the same pay rate as the next larger aircraft such as a DC9 or Fokker 100, nothing less. Neither side ever moved and slowly management found the backdoor of subcontracting the small jet flying. Few in number at the time, it was heavily limited by strong scope in many cases, such as United's which had requirements to grow the mainline fleet numbers if RJs were added. They thought scope was the answer. When the bankruptcy-survival era kicked in scope protectection was laughed at in most cases.

And here we are today, creaming in our pants to fly a CRJ-900. Welcome.
 
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Its about time..........well done APA

Would be nice...however, both parties will stare each other down to the wire. I know APA would like to burn the place down, but they would stand to lose more in the ensuing bankruptcy. The Death Star will dangle pay and pension guarantees in exchange for scope relief. Then Eagle(or whoever) will be flying 70+seat E-jets around.
 
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At the negotiating table Thursday, the union representing American Airlines pilots made a proposal that gets to the heart of more than 20 years of hard feelings between its pilots and American -- and for that matter, for many pilots at big carriers.

The Allied Pilots Association proposal:

All flying performed by or on behalf of the Company or an Affiliate shall be performed by pilots on the American Airlines Seniority List in accordance with the terms and conditions of this agreement.

I hereby take back every bad thing I've ever said about Lloyd Hill. Thank God someone is standing up and fighting for real scope language.
 
The timing couldn't be better. It's obvious the RJ is an ineffecient airplane (better call Al Gore...) and everyone is moving toward larger capacity feed.

AMR just wants something for nothing. TC
 
If only it would go somewhere.

They've proposed this before and AMR laughed. But it's Christmas time and everyone has a wish list for Santa.
 
It is easier said that done... plus the APA can afford to wave a big stick around... they don't have responsibility of serving many groups with different needs.

Look at it like this... It is allot easier for Texas to take care of Texas whereas the USA has a harder time taking care of the 50 states....
 
You said bad things about Captain Hill?

You would love the guy. He was/is very pro-ALPA and was trying like mad to get the APA to re-join ALPA awhile ago.

Never met him. I met Ralph Hunter a few times and thought he was a great guy, and I didn't like the way Lloyd ran against him. Also wasn't a fan of the illegal work action that Lloyd took part in and still defends. Despite that, if he's actually able to capture back any scope, even if it's just 70-seat scope, then I'll be thoroughly impressed.
 
go get em APA! All flying done by mainline! bout time!
 
Never met him. I met Ralph Hunter a few times and thought he was a great guy, and I didn't like the way Lloyd ran against him. Also wasn't a fan of the illegal work action that Lloyd took part in and still defends. Despite that, if he's actually able to capture back any scope, even if it's just 70-seat scope, then I'll be thoroughly impressed.

Ralph was/is a management suck-up/wannabe. I am sure he was/is a nice guy but he is not the type of person that you want leading your union. Especially when AMR is at the other side of the table.

Furthermore, Ralph didn't run a squeaky clean campaign either. Most of it was scare tactic BS that simply wasn't true.

All that and the fact that AMR management walked all over the APA pilots while Hunter was in office, and yet he did very little about it.

As for the illegal job action I tend to agree with you. However, the APA had to so something, and what they did do WORKED. AMR later admitted that the whole thing was a contract violation on their part.

Lloyd is a militant. That is the type of guy you need when dealing with AMR management. Sorry to say it but that is the way it is.
 
Ralph was/is a management suck-up/wannabe. I am sure he was/is a nice guy but he is not the type of person that you want leading your union
That's exactly the kinds of statements that I was talking about. Anyone that's talked to him would know that he isn't a management "wannabe" or suck-up. He merely has different ideas about how to reach goals. This is a different debate, though. Lloyd got elected, and I supported him and the rest of the APA pilots 100% while you fight for real scope language.
 
That's exactly the kinds of statements that I was talking about. Anyone that's talked to him would know that he isn't a management "wannabe" or suck-up. He merely has different ideas about how to reach goals.

His actions spoke louder than his words, and AMR management walked all over him.

Again, I have nothing against Ralph and I am sure he is a nice guy but he is not the type of guy you want leading your union against AMR.

And I agree this is not the time or place for that debate. It is water under the bridge now.
 

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