Alaska Arbitration

[QCappy]

When they are done with us, they will come after you. I would suggest preparing now.

I Agree

 

[Getter]

WTF is that supposed to mean? You need to stop drinking. Our pay rates went up significantly. I got about a 50% pay raise at the time. Some of the other crap does suck, but hey, it sure as hell wasn't a 26% pay cut.

Guess what! If you take a steaming piece of crap and increase it by 50%, it's still a piece of crap. As far as the drinking goes, its all I've got left to keep me sane.

 

[furloughfodder]

Congratulations on even making it to arbitration now-a-days.

APA over at American Airlines started the whole trend when they caved in after 6 weeks of talks and took over 25% pay cuts across the board and got nothing in return.

 

[BORAT]

I Agree

I've heard pay cuts or freezes and 90 seaters...Am I correct with these rumors?

-When is Horizon going to take our 900's also and run them to Pasco and Idaho Falls? I wouldn't put it past management to pull something like that...

Lets Harmonize, taxi slow, and burn some fuel...

I'm pissed

 

[QCappy]

I've heard pay cuts or freezes and 90 seaters...Am I correct with these rumors?

-When is Horizon going to take our 900's also and run them to Pasco and Idaho Falls? I wouldn't put it past management to pull something like that...

Lets Harmonize, taxi slow, and burn some fuel...

I'm pissed

A few months ago one of our paper pushers who wishes he was a pilot said he was going to a meeting with Air Group people a couple of days later to discuss CRJ 900's. What came of that who knows?

As far as pay for those things, our contract is unfortunately crappy when it comes to new aircraft. Here's what is says:

SECTION 10 NEW AIRCRAFT SECTION​

​

A. Direct Negotiations​

​

Should the Company announce its intent to place into revenue service aircraft other than theaircraft for which rates of pay are specified in this Agreement, the Union and the Companyshall meet to negotiate rates of pay for such aircraft at a mutually agreed upon time, but notlater than ninety (90) days before the aircraft is to be placed in service. The rates of pay forsuch aircraft agreed upon shall be retroactive for all hours flown in the new aircraft. If, after 60 days from the commencement of negotiations, no Agreement is reached, the parties shall submit the matter to arbitration.

​

​

B. Arbitration
​

Arbitration will be conducted by a third party neutral mutually agreed to by the parties. If agreement on an arbitrator is not reached, the parties will strike arbitrators from the panel of arbitrators set forth in the system Board of Adjustment section.

​

​

C. Conduct of Arbitration
​

The arbitrator will conduct the arbitration within 30 days after his selection, or as soon thereafter as he is available, and issue a decision within 45 days after the close of the arbitration. The arbitration will be conducted by the arbitrator and one board member each from the Union and the Company and decided by a majority decision. The award will be limited to rates of pay for new aircraft, as set forth in A. above. The Award shallnot be less than the lower proposal nor higher than the higher proposal. The arbitrator may consider industry rates of pay and practices and the arguments and evidence submitted to him by the parties.


​

Yep the dreaded "A" word. Let's see. Mesa is the only ones flying CRJ 900. We all know how little they get paid. We'd be screwed!

 

[Sioux115]

I can't imagine 900's at Horizon. They have enough problems taking delivery of 700's over the Dash 400's. Jets are too expensive to operate. Just like Alaska isn't profitable.

 

[akairman702]

Guess what! If you take a steaming piece of crap and increase it by 50%, it's still a piece of crap. As far as the drinking goes, its all I've got left to keep me sane.

I nearly wasted 2 minutes of my time responding to this one before realizing that it would be akin to hunting dairy cattle with a high powered rifle and scope.

 

[Rotate140]

Although it may not mean much to the guys at Alaska right now, I have talked with several of my fellow QX pilots and we are not only stunned by the results, but are extremely angry with it as well. As the other half of the Air Group we are now going to taxi just as slow behind the eskimo's, etc. and feel it is a blow to us as well.
I haven't been to work since this came down, but I guarantee I will make sure every other captain at Horizon knows my position that we as pilots of the Air Group will not stand for this BS, and will back our brothers at Alaska.

You're an idiot, and an embarrassment.

...probable from UND!

 

[Singlecoil]

I was at Horizon when that contract came down, and I can tell you it was the best they could get. I had problems with a lot of it, especially the wording and voted against it. However, to somehow think that Horizon sold themselves out is seriously mistaken. That contract had wages that were above Comair's hourly rate, and they had just struck for 87 days to get it. There is no way the NMB would have released the pilots, they would have called a recess with Bush in the White House.

Horizon won't get 737's because of scope. Unfortunately, not Alaska scope, because we are such wimps we never demanded scope, Horizon is scoped by Northwest to 74 seats on code share routes. I think that covers every Horizon flight. Besides, with Alaska's new costs the seat/mile costs on the 737 are far below what any RJ could do.

 

[QCappy]

You're an idiot, and an embarrassment.

...probable from UND!

Care to elaborate? I am waiting to hear something halfway intelligent from you.

....and the word is probably.....of which I am most certainly not!

Oh....and I voted NO!

 

[tomdav]

qx

I feel for the folks at Alaska, that is a tough one to swallow. The word around qx is no major growth until the Alaska contract was taken care of. Well it looks like there might be growth but it wont be Horizon. After 10 years the only thing that grows here are the ASM's and Managments wallet.

I voted no, but can now say I'm glad it passed.

 

[BarbrPole2theOM]

Any word on when they are going to use up the rest of the pool?

 

[alaskaplt]

Any word on when they are going to use up the rest of the pool?

With the changes to the work rules they got, don't hold your'e breath.

 

[QCappy]

With the changes to the work rules they got, don't hold your'e breath.

What were the changes to the work rules?

 

[mach none]

What were the changes to the work rules?

Trips touching vacation and trips touching training pay credit. No real surprise since we were one of the few that had those provisions left. The company cannot assign trips to bring the pilot up to min. credit like they wanted.

 

[akairman702]

Correct me if I'm wrong, Mach... but just so Q.C. understands how this affects hiring ~ in our previous contract if a day of our vacation touched (for example) the first day of a 4 day trip, we would be paid for the entire 4 day trip... the same went for training. This amounted to a lot of extra flying to be covered. With that provision gone there are a lot less hours to cover making for less pilots required.

 

[psysicx]

Does this mean your going to hire even though the mood doesn't sound so good?

 

[mach none]

Correct me if I'm wrong, Mach... but just so Q.C. understands how this affects hiring ~ in our previous contract if a day of our vacation touched (for example) the first day of a 4 day trip, we would be paid for the entire 4 day trip... the same went for training. This amounted to a lot of extra flying to be covered. With that provision gone there are a lot less hours to cover making for less pilots required.

That is one of the details to be worked out (how does this affect the negative bank program?). But reading the award, I believe the trip still gets dropped, you just don't get the trip credit anymore. You get paid 3:43 for the day. The trip will still need to be flown by someone else.

Bank vacation as we know it now changes too. It becomes a day for day with the credit again only worth 3:43. We lost the trip credit for vacation and training.

 

[QCappy]

Correct me if I'm wrong, Mach... but just so Q.C. understands how this affects hiring ~ in our previous contract if a day of our vacation touched (for example) the first day of a 4 day trip, we would be paid for the entire 4 day trip... the same went for training. This amounted to a lot of extra flying to be covered. With that provision gone there are a lot less hours to cover making for less pilots required.

Thanks for the clarification!

 

[Pilotbob3]

i didn't read all of the 7 pages...but did Alaska have "Interest based bargaining?"

 

[mach none]

i didn't read all of the 7 pages...but did Alaska have "Interest based bargaining?"

?????

 

[AKMD80GUY]

I have been reading this board for a long time but only now singed up. Does anyone have any idea what's going to happen when the rampers lose their jobs in a couple of days and you know flight attendant CHAOS is coming. This is going to be ugly for a long time.

As for hiring, I heard Ayer and the rest of the Anglers said no this year and next year is uncertain. I think they might hold on to the money they got from us incase the flight attendants have a lenghthy work action. NO VSA!!!

 

[mach none]

I doubt Ayer said no hiring. Several pilots have attended the recent employee meetings and have asked that very question...they did not answer the question. They skated around it. What does that mean? Who knows. Are we buying someone...who knows? They reduced the block hours this month and the remainder of the summer. They say to get us on track operationally. We all know the real reason is the pilots are pi$$ed off this month and they are concerned about job actions over the summer. We also know we do not have the pilots to operate a full summer schedule. I agree no VSA, but that is a small part of the puzzle.

It is going to be ugly. Be professional, don't do anything stupid, fly the contract and FOM and do only your job.

I do know that Ayer and Bagley have both stated that they pilots have a short memory and we will fall back into line after a few weeks. They know pilots co the extra stuff to keep the airline on track and running properly... NOT THIS KID.

Never forget. We got kicked in the ball$...Be professional, don't do anything stupid, fly the contract and FOM and do only your job.

 

[coolyokeluke]

Revenge is a dish best eaten cold, good luck to the Alaska pilots.

 

[ILStoMinimums]

Is a strike at all possible?

 

[Getter]

I nearly wasted 2 minutes of my time responding to this one before realizing that it would be akin to hunting dairy cattle with a high powered rifle and scope.

Ha haha. That's pretty funny, but I think we all know the real joke is in your pants.

 

[akairman702]

Ha haha. That's pretty funny, but I think we all know the real joke is in your pants.

Your Mom didn't think so, short stack.

 

[av8instyle]

Your Mom didn't think so, short stack.

Again, the cattle/rifle analogy is appropriate.

 

[Rotate140]

737-driver pay comparison chart.http://www.airlinepilotcentral.com/content/view/132/56/

 

[QCappy]

Form 8-K for ALASKA AIR GROUP INC



9-May-2005

Other Events


ITEM 8.01. Other Events

Pilot Arbitration Decision

On April 30, 2005, Alaska received a decision from an arbitrator regarding changes to its pilot pay rates and work rules that completed a process which began 22 months ago.

In May and June of 2003, Alaska met with its union leaders to discuss the need to make cost adjustments in every area of the company in order to be competitive in a changing airline industry. A cost reduction target of $307 million was established, which was based on the company's size at that time. Of that overall target, $112 million, or 36%, was identified for wage and benefit reductions and, of that amount, $82 million was sought from pilots. The original $82 million was based on the company's assessment of the market at that time - $71 million for wages ($54 million for wage rates and $17 million for work rules/productivity) and $11 million for fringe benefits. Since that target was established, Alaska's pilot costs have increased due to an across-the-board wage increase of 4% (or approximately $8 million) and the growth of the company, and the market has continued to decline.

Alaska and its pilot union initiated mid-term negotiations in October 2003. Failing to reach agreement, the company and the union then began normal
Section 6 negotiations in April 2004. The existing agreement provided that if a new agreement was not reached by December 15, 2004, wages plus 10 other issues would be submitted to an arbitrator for binding interest arbitration. On April 30, 2005, the arbitrator made his decision, the majority of which was effective May 1.

The company estimates the savings from the decision are approximately $80 - $90 million per year. Of that amount, approximately $60 million is due to lower wage rates, approximately $10 million is due to improved work rules; and approximately $4 million is due to changes in medical benefits and lower payroll taxes. Additionally, the lower wage rates will reduce pension costs by $5.5 - $14.0 million per year, depending on the measure used.

On an annual basis these changes amount to approximately .35 to .40 cents per available seat mile. The majority of the changes will be realized immediately; however, the company does not expect to fully realize work rule changes until it grows.

The company also sought changes to the structure of its defined benefit retirement plan and certain work rules, neither of which were achieved. In the aggregate, we believe the cost savings from the arbitrator's decision are generally in line with the company's cost savings objective.