Alaska Arbitration

[Jetsi]

Right now we do, but . . .

Hey, does Frontier make more???

Amazingly enough now we do. But our contract is being renegotiated right now.

And since Alaskan is one of our "comparables", who knows what will happen. With gas and the transition to the Airbus we aren't profitable now, so they might come after us.

Sorry to hear about what happened. It is a true shame. Best of luck.

Jetsi

 

[lumax]

I hope you guys at frontier don’t get hosed like we just did.

I feel that most of the blame for the mess in this industry can be put on the shoulders of the government.

What other industry gets taxed at around 50%.

Government should have lowered fuel taxes a long time ago.

Landing fees are out of control. If an airline pulls out of an airport or reduces its flying, landing go up for the rest.

Most importantly, bankruptcy laws need to be changed. It’s unfair for the airlines outside of bankruptcy to compete with and get compared to those that are under chapter 11 protection. Companies should get 1 year to reorganize. If after 1 year the company can’t get its act together, then let capitalism take its course.



1.36 cents worth (after paycut) from a 6th rated pilot!

 

[sgu]

I am so sorry to hear of your pilot groups latest kick in the jewlz. I am sure there will be a few people lined up at Darby's dog and pony show to land their "dream job" when Alaska decides to attend. I know a few Indy Air pilots sure would love to jump off their sinking ship to one that is still a float . Good luck with your fight with mgmt.

 

[SirFlyALot]

Lumax,

I think there's plenty of blame to go around. Yes, the government, like you said and for all the reasons you cited takes a portion of it. Management at most airlines also takes a good share. However, pilots also are partly responsible for the downward spiral in wages and earnings in our career field. Everyone knows that pilots, especially those with more than a couple of years at a company, have a VERY difficult time making a lateral move. The way we have structured our seniority system industry-wide absolutely gives management the upper hand. If management at Alaska, for example, had thought that a significant portion of their pilot force might walk to another airline after being hit with the level of wage cuts they just got hit with, they might have been a little more willing to negotiate. Alaska's wage cut is simply the latest example of why we need a truly national pilot's union that allows for lateral moves and puts some of the power back in our hands.

 

[Yank McCobb]

And since Alaskan is one of our "comparables"

I couldn't find "ALASKAN" anywhere among my list of US airline companies. Can you help me out with this one?

 

[Yank McCobb]

The flight ca and fo combined have lost around 85 - $90 per hr. You don't think we can cost the comapany that much and more.

Sure, you can go out with a mallet and cost 'em all you want. Net result? Is that going to make them all of a sudden see the light and raise your pay by $100/hr.? Not very likely there, pal. How about a dose of reality?

Is there any accountability with the union reps who turned down the "latest" company offer which would have hurt far less than the arbitrator's deal? Is there a plan for the next round of negotiations, or is it just a burn down the house mentality? Again, a clever plan. One of absolute futility and one that will NOT in any form or fashion yield anything but a very brief sense of revenge. Revenge don't pay the bills.

Hopefully you have a realistic plan to begin to recoup your losses instead of compounding them.

 

[BORAT]

I feel like Milton from Office Space, something about burning down the building... In other thoughts, I'm starting to think that Horizon is going to get a pay-freeze, 90-seat Rj's will appear and we'll get screwed again!

 

[alaskaplt]

Sure, you can go out with a mallet and cost 'em all you want. Net result? Is that going to make them all of a sudden see the light and raise your pay by $100/hr.? Not very likely there, pal. How about a dose of reality?

First off, I am not your pal. Second, No it is not going to make them raise the pay by $100 hr, nor did I even imply anything as ridiculous as that. But if the only thing they care about is the bottom line, it could eventually have an effect. Take a look at one of the flight schedule boards in SEA. Nearly all the flights are very late. I have personally rarely ever seen an airplane that didn't have at least one thing waiting to be written up. How long before passengers get tired of it. We have always had a bunch of wusses at this company, perhaps they have finally awakened. All I can say is FLY SAFE!!!!!

 

[AQ PILOT]

Somehow the word needs to get to management that this $hit has got to stop. I agree with you, FLY SAFE. Eventually, management will get it.

When times get tough, you don't screw your employees, you weather the storm or you go away. When was the last time management came to a pilot group in the good times and said, "Hey, we are doing really well! Here's a 25% pay increase...."

I tried recommending a FLY SAFE attitude here a few years ago right before we started all of our concessions. Our freebies were promised and never delivered. You wouldn't believe the reception I got... like I was the enemy.

If management agrees to something, they have to follow through. We as labor groups don't have the option of arbitrarily not following parts of our contract, why should they? Ok, done with my rant.... Feel really bad for you guys at Alaska....

 

[Boxboy]

sirfly,
I agree with you regarding the "lateral movement"; wouldn't that be nice!
I think a new name is inorder for ALK: JetEskimo and replace the hood with a clown's hat. Who in their right minds would want to work here making $35/hr. For a profitable airline (hiding behind their bean counters) to give a paycut of a bankrupt airline is......well, there are no words to describe this ludicrous act. I always thought the upper management at Alaska were a class above the legacy carriers, but I was wrong; they all worship Lorenzo. They are another bunch of greedy $hit heads from the old school. They are just as bad, if not worse than some of the commanders I had the pleasure of serving. Atlease those dumba$$es didn't rape their troops. I'm curious if these clowns thought about every possible scenario that this can cause before giving us the shaft. It will be interesting for the next few months.
As for the arbitrator, R.K..... who the hell paid him off, I wonder? It would behoove him to change his name and check his six.

 

[Yank McCobb]

First off, I am not your pal.

Thank God for small favors.

There is only one way, and that is OUT. The rest is just pissin' into the wind. And he who pisses into the wind holds his brain in his hand.

Talk all you want, but that is all it is.

 

[BORAT]

So long TANGO! It's time to POLKA!

 

[ACAFool]

First off, I am not your pal. Second, No it is not going to make them raise the pay by $100 hr, nor did I even imply anything as ridiculous as that. But if the only thing they care about is the bottom line, it could eventually have an effect. Take a look at one of the flight schedule boards in SEA. Nearly all the flights are very late. I have personally rarely ever seen an airplane that didn't have at least one thing waiting to be written up. How long before passengers get tired of it. We have always had a bunch of wusses at this company, perhaps they have finally awakened. All I can say is FLY SAFE!!!!!

How long do you think it would take to briskly walk 1.5 miles. I am with you FLY SAFE!!!!

 

[ACAFool]

Is there any accountability with the union reps who turned down the "latest" company offer which would have hurt far less than the arbitrator's deal? Is there a plan for the next round of negotiations, or is it just a burn down the house mentality? Again, a clever plan. One of absolute futility and one that will NOT in any form or fashion yield anything but a very brief sense of revenge. Revenge don't pay the bills.

So your brilliant plan would be to make sure to hold the MEC and negotiating committee responsible. That will really pay the bills as well. It's time for a pilot group to stop acting like pu$$ies and show management they are not going to take it anymore. And perhaps the only way that can work is by affecting the bottom line.

 

[Yank McCobb]

Actually, as I understand it, their mission was to see this through to the end, to ensure the no-strike and arbitration clauses were eliminated, no matter what. I guess the current result falls under the "no matter what".

As far as any "brilliant plan" that I may have...it has only one point. I retire in less than 3 months. I could not care less about this industry any longer. You guys can save the world, if you wish.

I'm embarking on a new life. If any of you had half a clue (which is obviously not the case) you would do the same. In the mean time, have fun beating your head against the wall. Go ahead...show management you aren't going to take it anymore. That has worked SO well so often in the past. Right?

 

[juan2go]

"I'm embarking on a new life"

Yank,

If I was retiring in three months, I could also say that I'm embarking on a new life. If you were not retiring for 13 years would you still be "embarking"?

Best of luck in retirement. I sincerely mean that.

regards,

Juan

 

[alaskaplt]

I'm embarking on a new life. If any of you had half a clue (which is obviously not the case) you would do the same. In the mean time, have fun beating your head against the wall.

Easy for you to say, with only 3 months to go. Good riddance.

 

[juan2go]

Hey, at least I sounded like I was being nice to the grump.

 

[Jetsi]

My Faux Pas

I couldn't find "ALASKAN" anywhere among my list of US airline companies. Can you help me out with this one?

Sorry Yank, I was thinking about that "ALASKAN" Amber ale that is made up there. Guess I should pay more attention when I am typing.

Jetsi

 

[tico]

Well it looks like it is time to shut up and join everyone else in the industry. Sell the house, sell the new cars, get rid of the toys, pull the kids out of private school, payoff the cards and buy a good pair of comfortable, black walking shoes. Negotiations start again in 18 months and I don't see how we will ever be able to come to an agreement on a contract now. I hope for their sake, that the leadership at the other unions will be advising their members to prepare for an extended period without pay and benefits sometime in 2007......